Improvements!

[aMUSEd]

Tagging looks cool.

I really like the idea of snapshots of the XY pads in Zebra! Even cooler would be a snapshot knob or slider which morphed between snapshots. Kind of how Alchemy works. Also kind of how Bazilles sequencer knob works. You assign a bunch of different sequences and then the knob morphs between them. Now image that for the XY controls. So you have for example 8 saved snapshot preset and the knob morphs between them like the Bazille sequencer knob! I'd love to see this on all u-he synths actually.

That's what I meant.

[EvilDragon]

I'd strongly prefer user definable tags to choosing from a fixed list of categories and tags.

I'm not that sure about that. So if every sound designer introduces some of his own tags, and you're "lucky" enough to own a soundbank or two from each of them, after a while you start suffering from toomuchtagitis, which ends up being detrimental instead of helpful.

Fixed tag list, please.

[hakey]

So if every sound designer introduces some of his own tags, and you're "lucky" enough to own a soundbank or two from each of them, after a while you start suffering from toomuchtagitis, which ends up being detrimental instead of helpful.

You could choose to not import the tags, or only those that overlapped with your tags, or all tags could be managed as a cloud.

The problem with a fixed list is that there's no objective universally accepted taxonomy of sound. What looks like a logical and meaningful system to one person doesn't work for someone else.

For example: to my mind "Bowed" doesn't seem a good fit under "Keys"; "Defined & Sparse" isn't meaningful to me; why are "Soft Attack", "Slow Release", "Percussive" and "Sustained" listed under "Features" rather than "Character"; and where are the tags for warm/cold, analog/digital, wooden, metallic, plastic, hollow, spacey, trippy, dubby, cinematic, rhythmic, modular, soundscape etc?

Of course, this is all highly subjective. And that's the point. Let us create and sort our own tags.

[Urs]

The important thing about our pre-defined tags is that we can translate them into other systems automatically. User defined tags we simply can't. So if people wish for their presets end up in, say, Cubase, Akai, NI or GM browsers they must use our tags, and so must every sound designer for 3rd party banks. My feeling: There won't be less such systems in the future and we need to make the most out of it for synths with 3000+ presets. Consistency will be key for this.

Furthermore the selection of tags is per plug-in. There'll be overlap between synths, but fx will have completely different tags and there's not much use for a "physical modeling" tag in Diva.

However, for your own preference there's naturally still the preset description field which will hopefully be included in the textual search. Who knows, we might even allow for smart folders where oen can store any combination of tag and search term.

[EvilDragon]

That makes a ton of sense over custom user tags, IMHO. Thanks, Urs.

[hakey]

I understand the argument for consistency, but that's where the problem lies - there isn't a system that will consistently classify all presets, and any attempt to impose one will inevitably be a fudge. I gave up on Big Tick's Zen precisely because of its rigid and ultimately unintuitive tagging system.

[david.beholder]

Not sure was it mentioned before, but:

1. Could we have in Dual VCO noise level controlled? It's quite hard to use with constant level.
2. May be FM would be good there too?
3. Dual VCO really need gain control/overdrive. In comparison with my bass station 2 it sounds so weak.

[Urs]

I understand the argument for consistency, but that's where the problem lies - there isn't a system that will consistently classify all presets, and any attempt to impose one will inevitably be a fudge. I gave up on Big Tick's Zen precisely because of its rigid and ultimately unintuitive tagging system.

We'll be happy to add tags if a bunch of presets surface that can't be categorized. Make it a feature request!

That said, we try to avoid things that are utterly subjective (someone's cold maybe another ones warm).

If in a year or two this is still not sufficient, we can talk about a "build your own". Please be aware that if we do user chosen tags, they'll stay on the user's computer. They won't spread through sharing presets because that would spoil a lot of possibilities to create tag based browsers.

Also, about questions like "why is Percussive in Features" - it's based on the analysis of the volume envelope, hence it's grouped with attack and release properties. We can bring up infinitely more of these features, but we need to concentrate on an initial bunch.

However, let's see how it pans out first before we plan further improvements

[Urs]

Not sure was it mentioned before, but:

1. Could we have in Dual VCO noise level controlled? It's quite hard to use with constant level.
2. May be FM would be good there too?
3. Dual VCO really need gain control/overdrive. In comparison with my bass station 2 it sounds so weak.

We'll see.

Do you have some audio files that demonstrate how our Dual VCO sounds weaker than your bass station? - It's very difficult for us to figure out exactly what's meant by this.

[david.beholder]

Do you have some audio files that demonstrate how our Dual VCO sounds weaker than your bass station? - It's very difficult for us to figure out exactly what's meant by this.

Sure. Where to send them?

[aMUSEd]

I understand the argument for consistency, but that's where the problem lies - there isn't a system that will consistently classify all presets, and any attempt to impose one will inevitably be a fudge. I gave up on Big Tick's Zen precisely because of its rigid and ultimately unintuitive tagging system.

The other side of this though is, as has been pointed out, if you import patches where other people have added their own tags, you ultimately end up with a database bloated with tags. I just discovered this after importing the Arturia NKS plugins into Komplete Kontrol, now it seems Arturia have decided in their 'wisdom' to use their own tags instead of NIs with the consequence that I now have over double the number of tags, many very similar sounding, which makes it harder to find the NI ones (which are better because they have subtags).

[Urs]

Do you have some audio files that demonstrate how our Dual VCO sounds weaker than your bass station? - It's very difficult for us to figure out exactly what's meant by this.

Sure. Where to send them?

support at u-he dot com would be great!

[sinkmusic]

One tiny improvement feature request : having some visual feedback for the LFO speed (without requiring a modmapper workaround).
Sometimes, writing a value is not enough, i really prefer the blinking "rate" lights on my analog synths which gives me a great indication of a LFO's speed

[tedlogan]

Tagging looks cool.

I really like the idea of snapshots of the XY pads in Zebra! Even cooler would be a snapshot knob or slider which morphed between snapshots. Kind of how Alchemy works. Also kind of how Bazilles sequencer knob works. You assign a bunch of different sequences and then the knob morphs between them. Now image that for the XY controls. So you have for example 8 saved snapshot preset and the knob morphs between them like the Bazille sequencer knob! I'd love to see this on all u-he synths actually.

That would be so useful, and much quicker than automating the XY parameters manually. Morphing between 8 sweetspots/snapshots - and automating that slider instead - yes please.

[EvilDragon]

One tiny improvement feature request : having some visual feedback for the LFO speed (without requiring a modmapper workaround).
Sometimes, writing a value is not enough, i really prefer the blinking "rate" lights on my analog synths which gives me a great indication of a LFO's speed

...except LFOs can be much faster than what you would be able to deduce from (comparatively) slowly refreshed display at max 60 Hz.