Tokyo Dawn Labs just released TDR Nova GE

[provoc]

I would also welcome separate outputs, could even use it just as a crossover since I imagine the crossover code is pretty darn good Complexity wise this adds zero to the UI, it just means some extra output pins/channels to the DAW that the user can ignore and implementation wise I would not have thought it was difficult?

Don't demand (way) more than you already got, which would also move drastically away from the plugins concept, just to let it fit more into your personal workflow. Something that you can build (in theory) within your own host (sometimes really easy!). And especially at this price! ]

Didn’t demand just welcomed

It's like asking a sample provider, that recorded a piano, to make a bass out of it with dubstep wobbles. Doesn't work this way, sorry. Though maybe another example: asking a developer to add a PPM into a VU is not a drastic move, but asking him for additional LPF/HPF, gain knob, M/S, transient designer, etc... sure is! ]

Highly suspect analogy from a technical perspective but clearly you are a passionate advocate and I sympathise with not wanting to add more functionality but no harm in putting suggestions out. I mean SlickEQ GE got a frequency graph and an analyser which is way more work than a few outputs.

Anyway, I really respect what Vlad and TDR do. I own Slick EQ GE, and Limiter no 6 is my go to, and as a user of 67P since its release I am looking forward to exploring TDR Nova more.

Cheers,

provoc

[Compyfox]

Highly suspect analogy from a technical perspective but clearly you are a passionate advocate and I sympathise with not wanting to add more functionality but no harm in putting suggestions out. I mean SlickEQ GE got a frequency graph and an analyser which is way more work than a few outputs.

This is a different issue, as there was a a static frequency plot available in the GE version (which did not update once it was open). An update turned this into a full fledged FFT/EQ curve view. So... an IMO logical update.

A "multi-output" version of NOVA would turn this into a completely different plugin.

Anyway, I really respect what Vlad and TDR do. I own Slick EQ GE, and Limiter no 6 is my go to, and as a user of 67P since its release I am looking forward to exploring TDR Nova more.

The learning curve is not that high. And some of the "evolved features" definitely make sense.

[Hermetech Mastering]

I'd LOVE separate outputs too, if it was not too hard to implement. People could ignore them if not wanted. Just imagine the insane creative possibilities of this... Multiband crossover with separate dynamics for each band... For multiple speaker arrays or just crazy track/mix processing... Please?

[Compyfox]

In all seriousness - I want to know this:

- why should this be included in this plugin?
- why can't people use a modular subhost, or, use parallel aux/group channels in the host for this purpose (which doesn't look as "streamlined" or nice, but is way more flexible)?
- why are tools like the frequency splitter from RS-MET and the Parallel Band Processor MB-7 (Bluecat) so uninteresting? They already cover this!


Why make an estate wagon out of a limousine?
Does everything HAVE TO BE an ultimate Swiss Pocketknife?!


Users also don't seem to have an issue with using 10-15 different compressors, even if there are multi-tools/app-purpose engines already on the market. But no, this plugin HAS TO HAVE this feature.

I really don't get it.

[Obsolete236871]

Any info on vst3 (see my post on page 5)?

[comfortablynick]

I'd LOVE separate outputs too, if it was not too hard to implement. People could ignore them if not wanted. Just imagine the insane creative possibilities of this... Multiband crossover with separate dynamics for each band... For multiple speaker arrays or just crazy track/mix processing... Please?

If you're only talking about exposing extra outputs to the DAW, then I guess I wouldn't object to this. I don't really see why it would be that useful, though. It already has "separate dynamics for each band." I would think the reason for using it as a crossover would be to use different dynamics plugins/effects on each band. Otherwise why not just use the compressor/expander built in? Maybe I'm not seeing what benefits this plugin has as a crossover when plenty of other plugins exist.

I really like this plugin so far. One feature I would like is for each band's dynamics processor to be able to be triggered from a different area of the spectrum, such as Fabfilter Pro-MB allows.

Nick

[Compyfox]

Any info on vst3 (see my post on page 5)?

I don't know whether it has been discussed before, but will there be any chance of an VST3 version for optimal usage in Cubase/Nuendo? Does your current framework support this?

I think the devs can answer this better than I can, but...

Theoretically the frame work "does" offer a VST3 version. But in practical terms, it's an absolute maintenance nightmare since each host responds differently to VST3. I know this from various companies I test for, and I've seen this first hand for TDL as well. The behavior in CubEndo compared to Wavelab alone was a complete nightmare - and both tools come out of the same house, yet each tool is "independent from each other" and also seem to interpret the VST SDK differently.

SlickEQ was once planned to be available in VST3 as well, only to be ultimately dropped due to a ton of issues that couldn't be fixed without coding a lot of workarounds, and therefore constantly pushing the release back. So it was dropped in the very last minute. There may be more reasons behind it as well (JUCE Framework issues with VST3 come to mind).

During that time of the SlickEQ release, a lot of developers started boycotting VST3. Mainly because of the ongoing issues with the SDK.

I know there is this Quatro channel trick (which is not available in my version of Cubase), but a VST3 would be optimal in Cubase. I really find it laughable too that Steinberg doesn't support VST2 sidechaining and many developers have taken issue with it before. Just curious.

Only Steinberg is to blame for this IMO. They wanted an evolution of their SDK (rightfully so, however the endresult is very questionable). But instead of overhauling the internal routing matrix of their hosts (spaghetti code and all), they said "let's go fully VST3 and ignore what happened before", while other developers were like "wait - it is possible with VST2.x, let's implement this without jumping hoops".


So the only people that "suffer", are those users that stood with the creators of the VST SDK. It's annoying me as well, but I rather have a stable VST2 version than a bug-ridden, way too large VST3 version. And thankfully enough, I barely need "side chaining" in my workflow. Not to mention that the "sidechain pumping effects" are now also available as dedicated "modulator plugins".

There is hope for VST4...
*cough* can you spot the joke?!

[VariKusBrainZ]

There is hope for VST4...

Only if they listen to the developer community, which from the Vst3 SDK you would think they hadn't

They should finally open source it or at least Gpl, so stuck in some some previous decade.

[FabienTDR]

We'll spend some time with VST3 again next year.

About multiple outputs, I don't know. I see two fundamental issues here, first, NOVA is not based on a crossover. You can approximate the behaviour of a typical crossover/multi-band compressor with a very restrictive approach. The presets called "N Band Dyn" do just this.

The essential difference is that a crossover device introduces a fixed amount of phase distortion, even without any EQ or dyn changes. NOVA, much like most other dynamic EQs, have no static phase shift (except for the EQ curve of course), but introduce a dynamic, GR dependent phase shift.

NOVA has several bands indeed, but summing all bands externally will not recover the original!

The other issue affects crossover based designs: It is incredibly difficult to maintain a proper signal reconstruction in DIY multiband trickery. In fact, you'll quickly come to a point where you'll basically have to learn DSP from the ground up, just to understand how to compensate for phase shifts/delays happening in the individual band's processing. While all this stuff is particularly easy to visualize and imagine, multi-band structures are often card-houses.

About cross-linking of bands, we'll maybe consider it for the future update. In fact, I proposed such a feature early in development, but we decided to ignore it for better usability/accessibility.

[FabienTDR]

They should finally open source it or at least Gpl, so stuck in some some previous decade.

It is open source. The problem here is (plugin host) manufacturers incapable of following, or at least properly documenting their own standards. Some do it right, see AAX, the format, documentation and support is excellent.

[Compyfox]

We'll spend some time with VST3 again next year.

I fear a lot of fun (not!) coming up...

They should finally open source it or at least Gpl, so stuck in some some previous decade.

It is open source. The problem here is (plugin host) manufacturers incapable of following, or at least properly documenting their own standards. Some do it right, see AAX, the format, documentation and support is excellent.

Emphasis on "incapable". Some host devs pull it off, others rather blame the "(custom) framework developers" instead of cleaning in front of their own house.

About cross-linking of bands, we'll maybe consider it for the future update. In fact, I proposed such a feature early in development, but we decided to ignore it for better usability/accessibility.

Care to explain what you mean on that behalf?

[FabienTDR]

e.g. band 3 dyn listens to band 1

(you can imagine how complicated things can become, it's cool, but very difficult to present without troubling the user. Most want results, not a playground)

[Compyfox]

Ah... so internal sidechain, one band commands the other...

[Yeager]

Bug report :
TDR Nova Free 32 bit in Fl Studio :
While playing a track, opening/closing the GUI produce clicks/glitches (even in bypass mode).

And the Clicks are GONE !

But also the blue threshold line is gone ! after opening/closing the GUI.

And try this for fun, choose preset : 1 band Dyn (reset it) click band I and in stead of threshold it says "Sticky"

[FabienTDR]

The threshold bug has been fixed in our codebase already! Will ship with the next update.

the Sticky thing is correct, though. Check manual.