KVR Audio

sdta · Post by **sdta** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:56 am

Wow, this is great! Bump! Gospel-trance-dance; hmmn, an oxymoron maybe. Good stuff tho.

Reverend Rhythm · Post by **Reverend Rhythm** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:14 am

Tim,
Just keep it up!

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:18 am

Yeh- I'mre ally tired- I'm going to give it a rest for a few days- I'm been up really late wrking on it earleir this week.

Then I will finish the female vocals/dance/guitar idea as the "original piece" and then finish and extract the trance/jungle stuff as a "remix" (since same chords etc) I look fwd to expanding the dieas out a bit, but I want both pieces to be radio length (3-4 mins max)

annode · Post by **annode** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:53 am

Thanx Tim for not reacting to my comments with a vengence.

Since there is no music history of your work to compare "ashrain" to...I just said what I felt it sounded like.(I do think it`s all quite good...and when samples and loops are seemingly used in pieces people post,and are not fully explained,it will stimulate my suspicion.)

Thanx also for your detailed reply.

I wonder if I can ask a few questions?
-Was the vocal recorded by you,and would you say you effected it completely on your own from a dry recording?
-Behind the vocal was an e-piano and fretless bass.Were they played by you,and are they samples from a sample player,(spectrasonics),or from a hardware synth?(excellently played and mixed)
-What synth was used for the bell pads right after the vocal part?(excellent preset sound)
-Can you descibe that gated synth at 4:37?(Ive heard that sound alot in trance,I love it but never knew what it was.)

Thanx for all the details Tim...and good luck with all your efforts.

mystahr · Post by **mystahr** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:21 am

What a most stunning creation

Someone said before that the second half became a bit tiring, and I must agree to a certain extend here. I believe this would have benefitted if the 4/4 dance percussion would have never gotten in here. The breakbeats make this way more lush and attractive.

Some cool and good idea's going on, so I hope you'll stick around and gift us with more from your creative muse

Welcome to KvR

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:30 am

Hi ANNODE!

Here are my answers:

You asked about the lead vocal. I did not record any of the vocals myself at all. ALL the lead vocals (the female) are dry recordings (not effects at all) and are taken from Creative Essentials for Reason Refill collection- which contains several isolated phrases mapped accross the keyboard- all in different keys.

Some of those are "praise prhases" and after I had writeen this piece (which was originally going to be instrumental only) I found several of them were in the key of my piece (actually I may have tweaked one or two by a semitone only) Every short phrase is a separate sample- I pieced them together to make pseudo-sentences- there is about one sample playing per bar in fact. Infact you can hear some have been repated.

It is important to note that I did not write this song FOR those vocals- I wrote the song first, and fit the vocals in. As i played with them- they began to dominate the mix more and more (in earlier version whch are quite different, the lead vocals were just for a short 8 bars in the middle of the piece)

Next you asked me about the effects on the vocals. Yes I effected them compeltey from a dry recording.

All effects are from Reason 2.5- excluding the mastering effects I described in my first post. You will notice in the dance chorus I have duplicated the vocal track and fed it through a vocoded synth to make chords (im sure other people have done this, but I did think of it independently myself- something I am proud of!) and pushed them into the background. they sound wide because the right channel on the vocoded chorus is delayed by 13 milliseconds.

THankyou for asking about the bass and epiano (and gutar as well?

)

ALL of them are multisampled instruments- the bass is actually spread over 2 midi channels- one for the reason factory slap bass, and one for the picked bass. I got some notes to be "slapped" and some to be picked, so it gives the line more of a live feel. I thouyght about how a bass player might play this part (but I'm sure its not entirely accurate- i'm not a bass player and I don't pretend to be

) I have used pitch bend.

The piano- well the first is a rhodes MK1 multisampled from the new electromechnical refill by the propellerheads (with panning and reverb) and the second dance piano is basically from reason as well (spikey grand) but with a high pass filter and effects.

I recorded all these parts myself (badly) and tweaked the midi events by hand (trying not to use quantising) Often I might record these parts by hand (with a midi keyboard) one bar at a time. (I sing in my head what the bar should sound like and learn to play it by short term memory)

The bass and keyboard lines are NOT LOOPS! I composed the chords and recorded every note by hand!

Next you asked about the "bell pads" These are actually two subtractor instances (reason's synth, which mark you a lot of people think poorly of for some reason) one panned left and one panned right. The right one is the highest frequency one and the only one with multitap to add stereo interest sparkle. The left one is mroe of an FM detuned texture. These are actually preset from ambient textures for reason (one of my faviourite and most inspiring refills)

Finally bass warmth in this section was a sampled pad (pad2 from trance construction kits refill if you are interested) with unison and low pass filter for bass warmth, and a distortion effect- (tape saturation using reasons scream module)

FINALLY at 4.37- that is not a gated synth, but rather gated choir chords from symphony of voices- I have used two instances again- one left and one right, and each has a different gate pattern, and each plays differnt chords. then I cross faded them.

I love rhythmic interplays

anyone guessed this yet?

Phew that was a big post. Now I have basically told you all how to write this, you can write it yourselves from scratch! I would like to to hold onto a few secrets though

But I hope this shows you a bit of what I have been doing. I have been using reason for about 4 yrs since it first cam out and i am STILL elarning new tricks and skills (many of which are demonstrated exlcusively in ash rain

Cheers!

Tim Hall
Composer

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 5:55 am

Just another comment about the dance section being tiring-

I really want to make a cool fun/happy dance track based on this idea (essentially the idea from 2.48 - 4.37ish.)

Even if it means making it a separate piece, I believe I *can* do this well- with some reworking

I think the drums in the dance section are a bit too overpowering- I expect to chnage that (probably different drum loops) but I want to write something like this and develop it into a "classic" style dance track that will get people moving to enjoy!

what do you think? the dance version with have the chords from 4.40ish to the end in the dance style as well, as a variation. perhaps something a bit less "poundy" im thinking about the intensity of george michal's amazing- a dancy track without an OVERT dance beat (and lots of TIm Hall originality!)

annode · Post by **annode** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 11:21 am

Thanx so much for all the details...again.

Believe you answered all my questions well!

The e-piano and fretless bass sound I asked about was behind the beginning vocal though....not important.(I do hear the picked/slap later in the dancey section.)

I`ve had reason for a few yrs...but never cared for it enough to work in it long.I`m beginning to change my opinion of it`s possibilities though.

Are you using any hardware sound processing?...the recording depth sounds pro!
Your composition and mixing are a big part of the pro sound ofcoarse...but it`s fullness and depth are unlike what i`m used to hearing from software.
If this is part of your secrets...i`m cool with that.

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:19 pm

THanks mate!

BBE sonic maximiser emulates a hardware brightness enchancer, but thats about it. My Hardware is my computer, my monitors, my Hardware synth, and a mixer for my synth

AT the beginning with vocals there is no fretless bass- thats a synth! atcually it is a hardware synth - my fantastic novation SN2- the only hardware synth I have. all the rest is s/w. the piano there is a rhodes multisampled in reason.

Reverend Rhythm · Post by **Reverend Rhythm** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:36 pm

Tim,
Let me give my opinion. I don't think the length is a problemat all. I just think you need to reduce the number of ideas and then concentrate on developing the ideas that remain. Keep the vocals and delays and effects and and the drum part and all of that. I personally like the intro and outro the way they are. I think you should spend more time working those ideas into the body of the piece.

Since you like serious composers, take a cue from them. Develop the nuggets. Develop the little ideas. But don't intro too many new ideas. You are talented. Now the work begins.

annode · Post by **annode** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:39 pm

Thanx Tim.

I understand what i`m hearing now.
Two of your mixing techniques are responsible for the effect i`m hearing that I like so much.
If you hadn`t told us about it...I may never had thought to try it.
I learned a few things from you that are of value to me...hope some others besides myself picked up on it.hehehe

Happy your sharing your work at KVR!

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:22 pm

Anytime! thankyou all so much for your valuable input- this is a great adventure for me!

btw which mixing techniques are the ones you like?

Zoing · Post by **Zoing** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 11:01 am

Loved your music, I wish I played at your church!...(I play at a small church of mostly very old people, which is nice too in its own way)

I liked all the different segments of Ash Rain, I think especially the quietish bit at the end... and that drum stuff in the middle was pretty cool.

Stunning work, especially when so much Christian music is derivative and bland. Like mine for instance. ha!

koorby · Post by **koorby** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:45 pm

Tim, here's my tip: move on from this song. It's fantastic; you've shared a lot of your secrets of how you made it - too much info IMHO. Now move to the next project. You're a very talented young guy - let's hear you do something new and fresh. Your mind needs a rest from Ash Rain, and you sound tired of it too. Now get to it, chop chop!

Inquisitor5775 · Post by **Inquisitor5775** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:51 pm

HAHA ok

CHeers guys-

I will post ehre again in the future when I have some more!

[Dance/Worship/Choir] Tim Hall- Ash Rain