KVR Audio

kelvyn · Post by **kelvyn** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:07 am

If I want the sound of Sylenth I've disvovered that using Sylenth will more than likely give me that sound and funnily enough it's the same with Hive... when I'm looking for the Hive sound that's probably what I'll use.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:08 am

I've heard some guys hyping Sylenth so much but making bad music with it...

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:16 am

It seems that people (including me) who are into different "EDM" subgenres prefer Sylenth, while people who need more common VA sounds for instrumental music, progressive rock, etc, prefer Hive. Maybe that's because Sylenth has been used in trance and related genres for ages and has a specific character, which those who follow this scene subconsciously recognise as "THIS sound", while Hive sounds maybe more "retro" - it is obviously not an analog emulation in any sense, but to my ears its sound shares certain common qualities with Diva (not surprising given that they are coded by the same team).

fluffy_little_something · Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:22 am

Any synth can be used to make bad music. I am sure there is also a lot of crap music out there that was made using Diva, Xils stuff, etc.
Sometimes people with little talent buy the best gear, hoping it will compensate for their lack of talent.

I think Hive sounds more like Retrologue than like Sylenth.
I don't remember it sounding metallic, to the contrary, Sylenth sounds edgier, but in a pleasant way. Neither sounds metallic. If you want metallic, try one of those SE synths with a built-in reverb

Nor do I agree that Sylenth sounds muddy on high octaves as someone said. I have made a patch emulating the lead from Kool and the Gang's Summer Madness, it sounds sharp and defined including the highest note at the end of that tune.

2ZrgE · Post by **2ZrgE** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:58 am

That's the thing about all these "...X sounds y to me..." - totally irrelevant most of the times.

How come that one person sees Sylenth's higher register as "muddy" while the other one speak of "clear hights"...that's just ridiculous.

I bet most of those 'expert' people wouldn't even spot the right synth in a double blind test...

But that's just my conviction, totally irrelevant...

fluffy_little_something · Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:07 am

I can think of several scenarios that might lead to different results. Being old-skool, I use mostly only a single wave per osc, occasionally two waves. I like the sound of two osc's with one wave each, it comes closest to the hw synth sounds I like.
As people increase the wave count and/or osc count, obviously the definition fades away somewhat, unless you lock their phases, but hardly anyone does that. What is the point of multiple waves if you don't detune them...
The sampling rate might also play a role, I use 96 kHz now, which seems to work fine.
Not to mention effects.
And people's hearing

fluffy_little_something · Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:11 am

Regarding the double blind tests, I think people with a good ear do hear the difference. I am talking about honest tests, not those fake blind tests like those we have seen on KVR where people use different settings in order to deliberately mislead people.

Oberheim's sounded different than Moog's, so why would anyone expect software synths to sound the same...

A good starting point is comparing the init patches on two synth, like a single saw + LP filter with the same cutoff and envelope.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:21 am

François Lelord wrote:Making comparisons can spoil your happiness.

Just saw that quote today and found it very fitting.

#---

I think in future we'll do some experimental plug-ins that give users some different quality options - but we won't say which is which. They can judge the options and submit their findings. And then we can say, hey look, this is what you voted for.

- U

fluffy_little_something · Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:38 am

Do the main wave(s) and sub wave(s) of the same layer share the same pan position in Hive? I couldn't find a way to place them differently, not even via the matrix, which might be one reason why I perceive pads differently in Sylenth, where each of the four osc's has its own stereo and pan controls. Especially on my headphones I easily hear the effect of different stereo and pan settings.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:10 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:Do the main wave(s) and sub wave(s) of the same layer share the same pan position in Hive? I couldn't find a way to place them differently, not even via the matrix, which might be one reason why I perceive pads differently in Sylenth, where each of the four osc's has its own stereo and pan controls. Especially on my headphones I easily hear the effect of different stereo and pan settings.

Indeed, Subs inherit pan from their main Oscillators. The only kinds of preset from Sylenth which Hive can't do are those with oscillators panned individually (without stereo spread) or when all oscillators use noticably different waveforms at different unison. Which is less than 10% of all presets, maybe even less than 1%. This is outweighed by Hive's more compact parameter set which allows it to have both synth layers on one page. No tabbing back and forth between layers and much faster editing

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:23 pm

fluffy_little_something wrote:Regarding the double blind tests, I think people with a good ear do hear the difference. I am talking about honest tests, not those fake blind tests like those we have seen on KVR where people use different settings in order to deliberately mislead people.

Oberheim's sounded different than Moog's, so why would anyone expect software synths to sound the same...

A good starting point is comparing the init patches on two synth, like a single saw + LP filter with the same cutoff and envelope.

Except that's not real world. Who the frick records a song with a synth patch that's just a single saw + LP filter? I sure as frick don't.

I am so sick of these "This synth sounds better than that synth" threads because they're all BS.

And I'm going to prove it.

I'm going to post a song with 20 plus synths in it. Not a one of you will be able to tell one synth from another. Your favorite synth may very well be lost in the dust and you wouldn't recognize it. Yeah, that's right. Won't be able to tell at all.

Once you're done mixing, mastering, processing and FXing these digital 0's and 1's all this "My synth is better than your synth" arguments become close to irrelevant and like I said, I'm going to prove it. I've been threatening to do this since I got to this forum but I've had enough of this chest pounding.

There are very few, and I mean VERY FEW synths out there that are truly so distinctive that they stand out in the mix like a sore thumb and can be easily picked out in a mix. I can maybe count them on one hand.

So it's coming. I don't know when, but it's coming.

And when it does, a whole lotta people around here, you included, are going to be eating a lot of crow.

/rant

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:26 pm

I think Sylenth sounds more tribal than non-tribal.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:32 pm

Igro wrote:I've heard some guys hyping Sylenth so much but making bad music with it...

Nice story, but i guess that holds true for about any synth out there.

Apart from that, what if i told you that what you consider bad music could be considered good music by someone else?

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:36 pm

wagtunes wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:Regarding the double blind tests, I think people with a good ear do hear the difference. I am talking about honest tests, not those fake blind tests like those we have seen on KVR where people use different settings in order to deliberately mislead people.

Oberheim's sounded different than Moog's, so why would anyone expect software synths to sound the same...

A good starting point is comparing the init patches on two synth, like a single saw + LP filter with the same cutoff and envelope.
Except that's not real world. Who the frick records a song with a synth patch that's just a single saw + LP filter? I sure as frick don't.

Yeah. I listened to a comparison test between Propellerhead Thor and Sylenth1 at the Geaslutz forum, and the test sound were some really, really basic sounds like comparing the sawtooth, comparing a filter sweep with no resonance, and one with half or 3/4 resonance, and then a simple supersaw pad sound. Well, literally every synth out there will sound similar when you do such basic sounds. The devil is in the detail. Modulating the filter, making thick pad sounds with different waves, adding harmonics, using saturation, comparing envelope behavior and so on. No synth will sound the same when you add those details. I'll be happy to donate a set of new ears if one feels like it does.

Btw, what i consider as "sounding good" is when the synth sounds nicely with basically everything i throw at it. There are IMO very few synths which really do that. It's just no fun when fiddling around and experimenting, and realizing that synth AB can't do this very well, can't do that very well, and has a very narrow "sweet spot". It's just unsatisfactory.

fluffy_little_something · Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:00 pm

Sure, I don't record a single saw sound, but I can often hear a difference even at that basic level, especially on more extreme octaves, both high and low. At least on my headphones.
Sylenth waves for instance sound a bit edgy and thus well defined, in a positive way. On other synths saws often sound fuzzier, which personally I don't like so much.
And more often than not that sound character adds up on pads and yields a different overall sound. Element pads for instance sound very different from both Sylenth and Hive pads.

It's a bit like with different kinds of strings on a guitar.

Anyone here use Hive?