Anyone here use Hive?

[wagtunes]

Sure, I don't record a single saw sound, but I can often hear a difference even at that basic level, especially on more extreme octaves, both high and low. At least on my headphones.
Sylenth waves for instance sound a bit edgy and thus well defined, in a positive way. On other synths saws often sound fuzzier, which personally I don't like so much.
And more often than not that sound character adds up on pads and yields a different overall sound. Element pads for instance sound very different from both Sylenth and Hive pads.

It's a bit like with different kinds of strings on a guitar.

And so in the context of a fully mixed song, you can tell every guitar, every synth with no problem. Everything sticks out like a sore thumb to you.

Sure it does.

[fluffy_little_something]

Don't put exaggerated words into my mouth.
If you use the "in the mix" argument, we might as well stop talking about any particular synth on KVR...

[2ZrgE]

Sure, I don't record a single saw sound, but I can often hear a difference even at that basic level, especially on more extreme octaves, both high and low. At least on my headphones.
Sylenth waves for instance sound a bit edgy and thus well defined, in a positive way. On other synths saws often sound fuzzier, which personally I don't like so much.
And more often than not that sound character adds up on pads and yields a different overall sound. Element pads for instance sound very different from both Sylenth and Hive pads.

It's a bit like with different kinds of strings on a guitar.

And so in the context of a fully mixed song, you can tell every guitar, every synth with no problem. Everything sticks out like a sore thumb to you.


Sure it does.

Well there's people who put their synths under the sonic microscope, and there's people who use their synths as tools for making music. For me that's one of the main reasons for all this confusion concerning sound quality. Both approaches are completely ok, and if synth A is more inspiring as synth B, that's fine with me too.

My focus is producing music for listeners, so it does not really make a difference (for them!) if I use Sylenth of Hive. For me it's not that big difference too as I use a lot of presets for my music, and both synths have lots of them.

In fact no one ever complained, because most listeners listen to the music, not the synth used (I don't either).

[wagtunes]

Don't put exaggerated words into my mouth.
If you use the "in the mix" argument, we might as well stop talking about any particular synth on KVR...

Except that's not entirely true. There are some synths that are not capable of making certain kinds of sounds because of their architecture. For example, there is no way in hell anybody can get Diva to sound like Wavemapper 2. It's just not possible.

What I am saying is, taking two "similar" synths and putting them in a mix, can you really tell one from the other after processing? And in the context of making music (isn't that what all this stuff is for?) isn't that all that matters?

The rest is all work flow, cost, ease of use and whatever arguments. And if you want to say that Synth X is easier for you to use than Synth Y or has a better work flow or gives you more bang for the buck because of additional features, whatever, that is all valid. And it's really the ONLY thing separating most synths.

But when you start talking about sound and how Synth X sounds great and Synth Y sounds like crap, that's all BS after you're done mixing this stuff. That is my only argument.

[fluffy_little_something]

Indeed, it is mostly a psychological thing When I love to play around with a patch on its own because I love how it sounds, then I am more likely to make good music with it than if I only had a synth whose sound doesn't impress me as much.

Like the difference between playing a Music Man bass and a mediocre or even a good bass from one of those huge bass and guitar factories in SE Asia.

[fluffy_little_something]

Except that's not entirely true. There are some synths that are not capable of making certain kinds of sounds because of their architecture. For example, there is no way in hell anybody can get Diva to sound like Wavemapper 2. It's just not possible.

What I am saying is, taking two "similar" synths and putting them in a mix, can you really tell one from the other after processing? And in the context of making music (isn't that what all this stuff is for?) isn't that all that matters?

The rest is all work flow, cost, ease of use and whatever arguments. And if you want to say that Synth X is easier for you to use than Synth Y or has a better work flow or gives you more bang for the buck because of additional features, whatever, that is all valid. And it's really the ONLY thing separating most synths.

But when you start talking about sound and how Synth X sounds great and Synth Y sounds like crap, that's all BS after you're done mixing this stuff. That is my only argument.

Sure, but we are talking about subtractive synths here. Although they are all a bit similar, they are not equal.
And yes, since you mention workflow, workflow and GUI are also important aspects for me.
Hive is too dark for my taste, it is gloomy to look at in the long run. It looks like from Star Wars, not like a hardware front panel.

You are exaggerating again, nobody here says this or that sounds like crap. Although I prefer Sylenth, Hive sure is a very good synth as well, I doubt there is any crap synth in that price range. They are all good, but not equal. We are talking nuances here.

[wagtunes]

Except that's not entirely true. There are some synths that are not capable of making certain kinds of sounds because of their architecture. For example, there is no way in hell anybody can get Diva to sound like Wavemapper 2. It's just not possible.

What I am saying is, taking two "similar" synths and putting them in a mix, can you really tell one from the other after processing? And in the context of making music (isn't that what all this stuff is for?) isn't that all that matters?

The rest is all work flow, cost, ease of use and whatever arguments. And if you want to say that Synth X is easier for you to use than Synth Y or has a better work flow or gives you more bang for the buck because of additional features, whatever, that is all valid. And it's really the ONLY thing separating most synths.

But when you start talking about sound and how Synth X sounds great and Synth Y sounds like crap, that's all BS after you're done mixing this stuff. That is my only argument.

Sure, but we are talking about subtractive synths here. Although they are all a bit similar, they are not equal.
And yes, since you mention workflow, workflow and GUI are also important aspects for me.

You are exaggerating again, nobody here says this or that sounds like crap. Although I prefer Sylenth, Hive sure is a very good synth as well, I doubt there is any crap synth in that price range. They are all good, but not equal. We are talking nuances here.

Okay, sounds like we are coming a little closer together.

So then you admit that in the context of a mix, it would be difficult to pick out one synth from another and that synth choice basically comes down to how the synth itself inspires you either because of its GUI, workflow, features or all of the above.

For me too there are synths that don't inspire me, mostly because of poorly designed or ridiculously small GUIs, the sounds of which are perfectly fine or even very good. I have passed on a number of synths because of this very problem. Yet, I will concede myself that in the context of a mix, these very synths that I don't own, sound very good. Even great. Which is why it infuriates me when a company designs a synth that sounds good but is impossible to work with.

My personal problem with Sylenth1 has never been with its sound, which I think is fine. My problem is with the cost relative to comparable synths that I can, and did get, that were a lot cheaper.

And no, I don't have Hive either even though I am a huge U-he fan and owner of many of their synths. Why don't I have Have? Because it really doesn't offer me more than what I already have in their other synths. Between Zebra 2, Bazille, ACE, Diva and Tyrell N6, I have no need for Hive at this point. Had it come out 2 years ago when I had very little in my collection, sure, I might have gotten it.

That's another factor in deciding on a synth, what you already own. A lot of times you're just duplicating something that you already have and just giving it a different package. That's why I buy very few synths these days. I'm looking forward to Flexion, if it's ever released, because it looks like it will give me something different similar to what Cycle gives me but hopefully more stable which is why I don't use Cycle anymore. That's another factor in choosing a synth. Stability.

But to my ears, in the context of a mix, I couldn't tell one synth from another (with few exceptions) if my life depended on it. And I've been listening to music for over 50 years now. Even that classic Moog sound can be imitated by so many synths, can you really tell, in the context of a mix, which is the real Moog and which is one of the ungodly number of emulations? I can't. And I remember when I bought Lucky Man on a 45 in 1972.

That's why these chest pumping "My synth is better than your synth" threads drive me crazy.

Because when it comes to making music, a crappy producer will still make Sylenth1 sound like crap and a great producer will make Synth1 sound like a $20,000 modular system.

It all comes down to talent in the end.

[2ZrgE]

Except that's not entirely true. There are some synths that are not capable of making certain kinds of sounds because of their architecture. For example, there is no way in hell anybody can get Diva to sound like Wavemapper 2. It's just not possible.

What I am saying is, taking two "similar" synths and putting them in a mix, can you really tell one from the other after processing? And in the context of making music (isn't that what all this stuff is for?) isn't that all that matters?

The rest is all work flow, cost, ease of use and whatever arguments. And if you want to say that Synth X is easier for you to use than Synth Y or has a better work flow or gives you more bang for the buck because of additional features, whatever, that is all valid. And it's really the ONLY thing separating most synths.

But when you start talking about sound and how Synth X sounds great and Synth Y sounds like crap, that's all BS after you're done mixing this stuff. That is my only argument.

Sure, but we are talking about subtractive synths here. Although they are all a bit similar, they are not equal.
And yes, since you mention workflow, workflow and GUI are also important aspects for me.

You are exaggerating again, nobody here says this or that sounds like crap. Although I prefer Sylenth, Hive sure is a very good synth as well, I doubt there is any crap synth in that price range. They are all good, but not equal. We are talking nuances here.

Okay, sounds like we are coming a little closer together.

So then you admit that in the context of a mix, it would be difficult to pick out one synth from another and that synth choice basically comes down to how the synth itself inspires you either because of its GUI, workflow, features or all of the above.

For me too there are synths that don't inspire me, mostly because of poorly designed or ridiculously small GUIs, the sounds of which are perfectly fine or even very good. I have passed on a number of synths because of this very problem. Yet, I will concede myself that in the context of a mix, these very synths that I don't own, sound very good. Even great. Which is why it infuriates me when a company designs a synth that sounds good but is impossible to work with.

My personal problem with Sylenth1 has never been with its sound, which I think is fine. My problem is with the cost relative to comparable synths that I can, and did get, that were a lot cheaper.

And no, I don't have Hive either even though I am a huge U-he fan and owner of many of their synths. Why don't I have Have? Because it really doesn't offer me more than what I already have in their other synths. Between Zebra 2, Bazille, ACE, Diva and Tyrell N6, I have no need for Hive at this point. Had it come out 2 years ago when I had very little in my collection, sure, I might have gotten it.

That's another factor in deciding on a synth, what you already own. A lot of times you're just duplicating something that you already have and just giving it a different package. That's why I buy very few synths these days. I'm looking forward to Flexion, if it's ever released, because it looks like it will give me something different similar to what Cycle gives me but hopefully more stable which is why I don't use Cycle anymore. That's another factor in choosing a synth. Stability.

But to my ears, in the context of a mix, I couldn't tell one synth from another (with few exceptions) if my life depended on it. And I've been listening to music for over 50 years now. Even that classic Moog sound can be imitated by so many synths, can you really tell, in the context of a mix, which is the real Moog and which is one of the ungodly number of emulations? I can't. And I remember when I bought Lucky Man on a 45 in 1972.

That's why these chest pumping "My synth is better than your synth" threads drive me crazy.

Because when it comes to making music, a crappy producer will still make Sylenth1 sound like crap and a great producer will make Synth1 sound like a $20,000 modular system.

It all comes down to talent in the end.

Don't tell that to the guys who make a living selling synths...

[ClubHo]

Excellent insight guys! Thanks to you guys I'm 10% more open minded, smarter, and wiser.

But I still think Hive sounds better.

[fluffy_little_something]

Oh sure, given the amount of effects people tend to use, I could probably not tell the difference in the mix.

Same here, for instance I love the way my M1 sounds, but I seldom open it anymore because its GUI simply hurts my eyes after a quarter of an hour.

Stability, I think Sylenth and Hive are very similar in this respect. There is one annoying bug in Sylenth (phaser init), which they said they would fix in the next update In the Apple version they have fixed it already.

Yes, if you already have all those other synths, why would you need Hive or Sylenth...
If it weren't for my CPU, I would simply get Falcon and sell/delete all the rest

[chk071]

Sure, I don't record a single saw sound, but I can often hear a difference even at that basic level, especially on more extreme octaves, both high and low. At least on my headphones.
Sylenth waves for instance sound a bit edgy and thus well defined, in a positive way. On other synths saws often sound fuzzier, which personally I don't like so much.
And more often than not that sound character adds up on pads and yields a different overall sound. Element pads for instance sound very different from both Sylenth and Hive pads.

It's a bit like with different kinds of strings on a guitar.

And so in the context of a fully mixed song, you can tell every guitar, every synth with no problem. Everything sticks out like a sore thumb to you.


Sure it does.

Well there's people who put their synths under the sonic microscope, and there's people who use their synths as tools for making music. For me that's one of the main reasons for all this confusion concerning sound quality. Both approaches are completely ok, and if synth A is more inspiring as synth B, that's fine with me too.

My focus is producing music for listeners, so it does not really make a difference (for them!) if I use Sylenth of Hive. For me it's not that big difference too as I use a lot of presets for my music, and both synths have lots of them.

In fact no one ever complained, because most listeners listen to the music, not the synth used (I don't either).

There's a good point about that. Most artists don't make a big deal out of what they use, it's rather the artists which is in the spotlight, not his tools. Anyway, i doubt that anyone would rather work with something inferior, if he got a taste of superior, which is of course highly subjective too, but i doubt that most wouldn't feel it's kind of a step back to get back to something you don't like as much as the new stuff you tested.

[chk071]

Excellent insight guys! Thanks to you guys I'm 10% more open minded, smarter, and wiser.

But I still think Hive sounds better.

Hey, fair enough. That's basically what this thread is about.

[wagtunes]

Oh sure, given the amount of effects people tend to use, I could probably not tell the difference in the mix.

Same here, for instance I love the way my M1 sounds, but I seldom open it anymore because its GUI simply hurts my eyes after a quarter of an hour.

Stability, I think Sylenth and Hive are very similar in this respect. There is one annoying bug in Sylenth (phaser init), which they said they would fix in the next update In the Apple version they have fixed it already.

Yes, if you already have all those other synths, why would you need Hive or Sylenth...
If it weren't for my CPU, I would simply get Falcon and sell/delete all the rest

About Falcon. Have it, love it, probably my favorite synth for sound creation. Still, it is not a be all and end all. There are synths that I have that would be difficult to emulate in Falcon short of doing a crap ton of work whereas I can just open up that synth and in seconds get a sound that Falcon would require much programming to emulate if at all possible.

Off the top of my head in alphabetical order

Cycle
Mr Alias Pro
MS 20
Scrooo
Wavemapper 2
Wavestation

Scrooo, especially, is one of the most unusual synths that I have encountered. It has a real oddball architecture that takes a little while to get used to. But the sounds it can make are truly different

So no, as much as I love Falcon, I couldn't toss out everything I own and easily duplicate their sounds.

That's why most people don't own just one synth.

But yes, a lot of what I have could probably be chucked out the window and I'd never miss it because, relatively speaking, it's just more of the same old same old.

[fluffy_little_something]

I suppose it depends on what kind of music one makes.
A lot of R&B stuff for instance is rather traditional in terms of synth use, Jill Scott for instance. I guess one could make that kind of music with a single good synth

[wagtunes]

I suppose it depends on what kind of music one makes.
A lot of R&B stuff for instance is rather traditional in terms of synth use, Jill Scott for instance. I guess one could make that kind of music with a single good synth

Sure, and there's a lot of music that you can throw all your synths out and just buy an orchestral sample library.