Minimonsta is 11 years old and it still sounds like the best VA to me.

[ghettosynth]

I just love how all you are willing to simply post audio examples...helping to support your points.
You`re not unique, I don`t see ppl doing it in any posts.

Because it's work and the burden begins with those making the initial claims, e.g., "minimosta ... still sounds like the best VA to me." If you agree with that, then post an example of how it sounds better than Diva/Monark and discuss it. That will give others a basis to know where you're coming from.

[annode]

I just love how all you are willing to simply post audio examples...helping to support your points.
You`re not unique, I don`t see ppl doing it in any posts.

Because it's work and the burden begins with those making the initial claims, e.g., "minimosta ... still sounds like the best VA to me." If you agree with that, then post an example of how it sounds better than Diva/Monark and discuss it. That will give others a basis to know where you're coming from.

It most likely because your all a bunch of ass scratchers.

[pdxindy]

Start pushing a real Moog live and you will smile with visceral pleasure... Minimonsta will crap out.

Could you be more specific what you mean here? How is it going to "crap out," specifically? And when you say "pushing" it what the heck are you actually referring to?

I'm not arguing what you're saying, I just think terms like "pushing it" and "it'll crap out" are pretty functionally useless in a discussion of A vs. B if you don't say what they actually mean

I can't speak for pdxindy, but, to me, pushing it refers to input overloading, extreme resonance settings, filter FM, and most importantly, rapid modulation, particularly of cutoff. If you can't hear how bad old filters sound compared to newer filters like Diva and Monark, then you probably aren't doing these things. Rapid modulation, and it doesn't have to be that rapid, you can hear it with filter sweeps, will reveal distortion from less accurate filter models.

Yes, that is what I meant, and by crapping out I mean this: the old softsynth may have some sweet spots where it sounds good/credible as an emulation. So if you are just playing a preset it is nestled into that sweet spot and may be acceptably good. But as soon as you tweak cutoff and high resonance or add an LFO pushing into low audio rate, etc., you are out of those sweet spots and the older digital filters can sound quite bad, brittle, digital harsh, incoherent (or whatever terms to describe it).

A quality analog filter will have some particularly lovely places but it also just sounds good no matter how you push it. And when you do, there is a lot of character that is non-linear / unexpected pleasing nuances. So you can depend on it for realtime performance tweaking.

The filters in Diva, Bazille, Monark, and from Cytomic (the ones I am most familiar with) are much closer to their analog brethren when pushed.

Digital filter design has taken a solid jump forward in the past few years.

[pdxindy]

I just love how all you are willing to simply post audio examples...helping to support your points.
You`re not unique, I don`t see ppl doing it in any posts.

Because it's work and the burden begins with those making the initial claims, e.g., "minimosta ... still sounds like the best VA to me." If you agree with that, then post an example of how it sounds better than Diva/Monark and discuss it. That will give others a basis to know where you're coming from.

It most likely because your all a bunch of ass scratchers.

audio example or STFU

[fluffy_little_something]

What is low audio rate? 20 Hz or so? Such modulation gets a bit irritating fast, especially with higher amount and the resulting beating, even with sine. But who knows, maybe there is no beating with hardware...

[EvilDragon]

Low audio rate is yeah, from like 50 Hz to couple hundred Hz. So, kinda-sorta FMish.

[chk071]

Low audio rate is yeah, from like 50 Hz to couple hundred Hz. So, kinda-sorta FMish.

I always wondered, is there a difference then even to what FM does?

[jancivil]

Since the Minimoog only did what its time permitted...

But with various mono modes including retrigger options in modern poly synths, I fail to see the purpose of a mono synth. I would only use it for bass and maybe a lead sound, but would I even notice the difference in the mix? I doubt it.

... on stage, there is something alive about a good analog mono-synth. A real MiniMoog sounds damn good on stage.

Monark will behave much better than Minimonsta across a wide range of settngs... and a real Moog will be even better still. Start pushing a real Moog live and you will smile with visceral pleasure... Minimonsta will crap out.

boy that thing cut right through.

I've seen that more than once, 'I don't really see the point of a monophonic synth.'. That's just a statement of 'I have no clue'. What's the point of a monophonic instrument? The behavior for one thing. Mono portamento. Mono 'hammer-on', you hold a note and essentially do 'tapping'; the relationships in the overlap are a thing. There is a performance practice available only with the monophonic instrument.

In a mix: I have done a couple things with Monark. One included it in a section that was pretty thick, and there wasn't going to be a lot of space to be carved out. The Monark really cut, here. In a way nothing else will. I have more than one thing for the general type for that part, but here was a type of relief that for sure was not otherwise available. Just more satisfying to do.

[fluffy_little_something]

Well, isn't that what the different mono modes are there for? With various note priority and retrigger options?

[pdxindy]

Low audio rate is yeah, from like 50 Hz to couple hundred Hz. So, kinda-sorta FMish.

yeah... I mentioned that range because it is common for LFO's to be capable of it.

[pdxindy]

Well, isn't that what the different mono modes are there for? With various note priority and retrigger options?

Yes, they are there for that... but there is more to it. How does the filter behave when you use the techniques jancivil is talking about. How does the envelope behave? And how do they interact with each other? It's a quite complex set of potentially non-linear relationships that requires significant cpu to emulate (most older digital synths didn't even attempt it).

A real analog filter can have such a lovely character in how it jumps when you do a mono 'hammer-on' (which is essentially a super fast modulation). Tweak the env while you are playing mono notes and there is quite a bit of tonal diversity/nuance. And analog circuits have no sample rate so (near) immediate changes have a dynamic coherent vitality that also takes cpu to emulate.

[ghettosynth]

Well, isn't that what the different mono modes are there for? With various note priority and retrigger options?

Yes, they are there for that... but there is more to it. How does the filter behave when you use the techniques jancivil is talking about. How does the envelope behave? And how do they interact with each other? It's a quite complex set of potentially non-linear relationships that requires significant cpu to emulate (most older digital synths didn't even attempt it).

A real analog filter can have such a lovely character in how it jumps when you do a mono 'hammer-on' (which is essentially a super fast modulation). Tweak the env while you are playing mono notes and there is quite a bit of tonal diversity/nuance. And analog circuits have no sample rate so (near) immediate changes have a dynamic coherent vitality that also takes cpu to emulate.

And, to beat the dead horse, this is why (the same select few) people who disagree with this oft repeated sentiment for older soft-synths don't waste our time posting audio samples. If you don't get all of this already, then you don't know what to listen for. If you do get all of this, then you wouldn't be defending the title of this thread. In short, it's a waste of our time.

[electro]

keyboardmagazine.de did an old article evaluating audio clips from several softsynths and the hardware they attempt to emulate. Softsynths from Korg, Gforce and Arturia were included.

[BasariStudios]

At almost 200$? Nah thanks, LONG LIVE Diva and Monark!!!

[ghettosynth]

keyboardmagazine.de did an old article evaluating audio clips from several softsynths and the hardware they attempt to emulate. Softsynths from Korg, Gforce and Arturia were included.

The point here is that audio clips need to be understood in the context of claims being made. Referring to other people's clips isn't really that interesting or useful.