Bitwig

takaii · Post by **takaii** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:58 pm

Scotty wrote:I agree completely with this Tom. If Bitwig supported multi monitors with a combination of touch and mouse control, I'd add a touch screen to my studio. Having the ability to grab knobs without mapping them or fussing with controllers would be great but I don't want my entire workflow reinterpreted for complete touch screens control. IN fact I am hoping Cubase would allow the same thing whereby a Plugin or mixer would open on a touch enabled screen so it can be used when it makes sense to use it. I have experimented with audio editing on the IPAD and it works very well for some functions but not for others. Give us the flexibility of configuration and I'll be happy and will not resent the development time required. - Scotty

ThomasHelzle wrote:I see this a bit differently.
I so far have no touch screen but Bitwigs implementation actually makes me interested in getting one for the first time.
Not as main screen, but as a secondary screen sitting tilted on the side next to my keyboard.
As soon as the touch interface can be used on a second screen while the main one stays in mouse mode I may get one, I think I'd enjoy that. Many things don't make sense to me doing with fingers, but others make no sense to me doing with the singular mouse/pen. So like Suloo I would see it as multitouch controller.

Cheers,

Tom

I am not against touch. I dont like it myselft, i just wish bitwig could focus on touch when bitwig was more grown, but no changing that now, its allready intergrated. But so many things from bitwig i need as a musisician. And no i cant buy a new daw. I hate also using 2 daws btw. People also have paid ton of money for some hardware and not working properly with bitwig etc. As i still mentioned touch is not necessary atm, i still love to se it implemented even if i wouldnt use it. we need basic stuff man, important for many peoples music

WXLF · Post by **WXLF** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:06 pm

ThomasHelzle wrote:I would also be interested in the instrument aspect, since all the MPE controllers I tested so far were not totally up to my expectations. I found that the surfaces of those instruments often make it hard to play them. The Rise is too uneven to really pitch-slide over larger areas IMO, the LinnStrument felt too sticky for my taste. So while a touchscreen has no tactile feedback, I would still be interested in trying it out for expressive note input in X/Y.

I have never tried a physical MPE controller, but I personally find Moog's Animoog app very expressive with the way you can change the timbre through an x/y space. And that isn't even 3D touch! So yes, I can imagine it would make a great expressive instrument. I am also interested in that aspect.

ThomasHelzle wrote: Another aspect for me is, that being innovative isn't as linear as you guys seem to think. If all you are concerned about is comping, time signatures and fades, there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that.

Hmm.. Even though i may call it such, i don't really see time signatures as a feature though. I see it more as a basic writing/ composition tool. It seems people rarely explore outside of 4/4. To me pioneering outside of those spaces, is innovative.

But again... Looking forward to when I can make Bitwig my main DAW because I find the effect devices, routing very inspiring and creative.

anp27 wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that.
But here's the thing... I do want to be able to use just ONE DAW. I'm sick of people telling me that it's ok to use more than one.. that you can have different DAWs to do different things.. why in 2016, can't we just have one DAW that can finally do everything?

What other choice do you have? Until Bitwig becomes the "swiss army knife" of DAW's, what other option is there? I would prefer not to use multiple daws too, but no other choice.

takaii · Post by **takaii** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:08 pm

WXLF wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:I would also be interested in the instrument aspect, since all the MPE controllers I tested so far were not totally up to my expectations. I found that the surfaces of those instruments often make it hard to play them. The Rise is too uneven to really pitch-slide over larger areas IMO, the LinnStrument felt too sticky for my taste. So while a touchscreen has no tactile feedback, I would still be interested in trying it out for expressive note input in X/Y.
I have never tried a physical MPE controller, but I personally find Moog's Animoog app very expressive with the way you can change the timbre through an x/y space. And that isn't even 3D touch! So yes, I can imagine it would make a great expressive instrument.

ThomasHelzle wrote: Another aspect for me is, that being innovative isn't as linear as you guys seem to think. If all you are concerned about is comping, time signatures and fades, there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that.
Hmm.. Even though i may call it such, i don't really see time signatures as a feature though. I see it more as a basic writing/ composition tool. It seems people rarely explore outside of 4/4. To me pioneering outside of those spaces, is innovative.

But again... Looking forward to when I can make Bitwig my main DAW because I find the effect devices, routing very inspiring and creative.

anp27 wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:there are plenty of "non-innovative" DAWs for that.
But here's the thing... I do want to be able to use just ONE DAW. I'm sick of people telling me that it's ok to use more than one.. that you can have different DAWs to do different things.. why in 2016, can't we just have one DAW that can finally do everything?
What other choice do you have? Until Bitwig becomes the "swiss army knife" of DAW's, what other option is there? I would prefer not to use multiple daws too, but no other choice.

+1111 WXLF

having touch before essential is like wiping yourself before taking a crap. not against touch, just in what order it came to bitwig

anp27 · Post by **anp27** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:18 pm

takaii wrote:Totally agree, and we all dont have money to spend on ableton etc.

Haha actually I don't think Ableton is the perfect DAW... I think perhaps Cubase is probably the most well rounded out of all of them. Too bad though that Cubase's GUI is a nightmare (to me), is not intuitive, is quite expensive, needs a dongle and has a very steep learning curve. I don't think I would every bring myself to switch over to Cubase.. even though they seem to have the best implementation of MIDI around (Per Note Expression globally, Expression Maps, etc).

That's why I love Bitwig and I get a bit frustrated knowing that it could very well be the ultimate DAW... Best workflow, super intuitive, is not too expensive, next to nothing learning curve, no dongle, has some other really innovative and nice features that I don't even have to mention here.. but why would you leave out the features that we could really use, as old fashioned or un-innovative as they are?

anp27 · Post by **anp27** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:21 pm

WXLF wrote:What other choice do you have?

Sadly, I do not have one. That's why I'm here now, voicing out my opinions.

WXLF wrote:Until Bitwig becomes the "swiss army knife" of DAW's, what other option is there? I would prefer not to use multiple daws too, but no other choice.

Yes, exactly. I have no other choice right now, but I'm still hoping that they don't take too long with implementing the essentials because seriously, Bitwig has come really close.

Andrei Marchenko · Post by **Andrei Marchenko** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:26 pm

takaii wrote: I am not against touch. I dont like it myselft, i just wish bitwig could focus on touch when bitwig was more grown.. But so many things from bitwig i need as a musisician. I hate also using 2 daws btw..

This!

anp27 · Post by **anp27** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:31 pm

To add to all of this... I dream of the day where I'm not on this forum, complaining and begging for features anymore because everything is already there in Bitwig. Where we can just come together on this forum, share workflow ideas, learn new things, make awesome music and congratulate the Bitwig team on the awesome work they continue to do.

chroma · Post by **chroma** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:33 pm

takaii wrote:
2ZrgE wrote:Same here, not really interested in touch (and I also don't want to/cannot spend that large amount of money to buy a usable touch device). Maybe in a couple of years the prices for those devices will be more consumer-friendly.

But understandable, it's called USP (unique selling proposition) in marketing terms, they have to have sth that distinguishes them from the rest, the competition is strong. Ableton or FL Studio (main competitors) will head in the same direction (Ableton surely will come up with sth special for Live 10).
Yes they will make sell numbers in new areas. But consider that a lot of people wait to buy bitwig until they have time signature, comping and fades etc etc. Making it full. That would make a lot of more attraction. There are so many times ive read and seen people say "i wait to buy bitwig until fades comes", or "i wait to buy bitwig until comping, midi routing out per channel comes" Never ive read read that "i want bitwig on surface pro".

maybe not bitwig specifically, but there is interest in touchscreen control - look at the interest in the Slate Raven or other things like that. the thing is, if you want fades, or comping, or any of those things, you have many DAWs to compare between, and then you pick one. you might pick bitwig if it has everything you want, or you might pick something else.

but if you want to touch your DAW, the choices are much smaller, and if a lot of them choose Bitwig, might be good for them. only Image Line seems to be really even trying here.

I got the tablet in the first place because I've considered playing guitar out using Amplitube, and a tablet fits nicely on a music stand, and a laptop doesn't. In general, I think it's cool to use the mouse/keyboard for setting up a set, but then be able to switch to tablet mode and run without the keyboard for the performance itself; you can sort of do this with TouchAble etc. if you don't mind managing both it and the laptop - would be nice to have it all on the same box.

I think Usine would let me do this, but not sure if I want to switch to a new environment yet (i'm mostly tied up in Live due to investment in M4L machines). I'd really like something like Automap, but touchscreen. I wish something like that existed; i don't know if it does in Bitwig, but that would be a very compelling thing...

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:35 pm

Scotty wrote:I agree completely with this Tom. If Bitwig supported multi monitors with a combination of touch and mouse control, I'd add a touch screen to my studio. Having the ability to grab knobs without mapping them or fussing with controllers would be great but I don't want my entire workflow reinterpreted for complete touch screens control.

Just buy a cheap touchscreen monitor and use touch and mouse. Just don't use the "tablet" screenset, which is anyway only in there because of tablet having small screens - because touch always works, not only in the tablet screenset.

Regarding the other posts: The touch things took a lot less time compared to other stuff and we improve and fine tune it where it fits and while we go, and crossfades etc. etc. will come, as already stated. It is still version 1.3 - i really don't think there's any reason to panic or think that we're loosing focus. It is just that the stuff that is missing gets cried about, but as soon as it is there, you don't notice anyone talking about anymore. Drum machine choke, anyone?

Cheers,
Dom

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:41 pm

anp27 wrote:To add to all of this... I dream of the day where I'm not on this forum, complaining and begging for features anymore because everything is already there in Bitwig. Where we can just come together on this forum, share workflow ideas, learn new things, make awesome music and congratulate the Bitwig team on the awesome work they continue to do.

Experience after being into this game and industry for about 2 decades now is unfortunately that this will not happen, it is just not how people tick.

Cheers,
Dom

WXLF · Post by **WXLF** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:47 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:It is just that the stuff that is missing gets cried about, but as soon as it is there, you don't notice anyone talking about anymore. Drum machine choke, anyone?

Not true. In the music/creative section of twitch I see lots of people raving about the routing, intuitivness, etc of Bitwig. Myself included

anp27 · Post by **anp27** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:51 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:Experience after being into this game and industry for about 2 decades now is unfortunately that this will not happen, it is just not how people tick.

Cheers,
Dom

Rest assured, Dom, I for one definitely do not 'tick' that way and I'll be the first one to congratulate you guys for the awesome work you've done! On the Bitwig Discord chat, that's pretty much exactly what goes on... all we do is talk about how cool Bitwig is and we share workflow ideas all the time. So please don't give up on us just yet!

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:53 pm

WXLF & anp27

I guess i should stop hanging out here that much

kev2525 · Post by **kev2525** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:06 pm

When the day finally arrives that we have tablets powerful enough to be the heart of our studio then I know everyone who slags off the touch screen experience will be eating their words. I envision a day when I place my tablet in a docking station and get to use bitwig as a normal DAW in conjunction with my big fat 26" screen, my soundcard for all the inputs, my controllers and maschine and my genelec monitors. When I'm travelling I pack my 900g tablet in a bag and I can produce wherever and whenever I want. Back at base I plug in my tablet and all my ideas are there ready to use. I have the full DAW and all my plugins on my tablet all of the time. This is the future that bitwig, microsoft and other tablet manufacturers are working towards. The day will come when we'll have quad core, 32GB ram and 1TB SSD tabs running Bitwig and I am excited for that day to come. I really can't see how there is any negative side to developing technology like touch for Bitwig? Sure, there are other features missing in bitwig that aren't there yet, but surely comparing such a new kid on the block to other DAW's is like comparing Madonna to Taylor Swift. One is old and has been around the block and has a lot to offer in terms of experience, and lets be honest she could probably suck the chrome off a towbar. The other is new, sexy and has so much potential. As a bitwig user I love the direction the DAW is taking and if the Bitwig guys ever visit my part of Germany I will personally buy them all an Altbier and a Döner.

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:13 pm

That's the idea at the moment.
Make the one core app as versatile as possible with a lot less development time than wasting countless hours of creating a stripped down iOS or Android app, that just looks like Bitwig but does not help the core app at all, just to cash in on that front.

Cheers,
Dom

Bitwig

KVR Audio

Am I the only one who couldn't care less about touchscreen?