I am using Live Mode changing presets using MIDI program changes. All Live Mode presets are loaded into Ram and ready to play. And yet when I send MIDI program changes I get slight delays when changing. Not always though. After changing to a specific program and having a delay, changing away and back to it again is faster.
This doesn't seem right and I can't figure out how to fix. According to the manual midi program changes in live mode should be instant as long as are all patches are loaded into ram, which they are.
I'm only using three plug-ins and they don't use samples at all.
I purchased this VIP with with the understanding that using Live Mode, and sending MIDI program changes to change presets, that the presets would change instantly. That is according to Page 31 of the manual. Instead there is a delay. Same delay as when you use the Live Mode interface buttons to change presets.
Can anyone provide some input?
HELP! Thank you!
VIP 1st version, Live Mode issue
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- KVRist
- 144 posts since 20 Feb, 2013
Hi
i sometimes use live mode ,i find thatthere is sometimes a small delay before some patches load.
I have observed depends on how many patches are loaded into the live mode window and how mutch ram is avalable.
How mutch Ram do you have installed.?
Do you have multi core support enabled.?
Are the synths you have loaded 64 bit or 32.?
I rather like the rack mode GUI because it gives me the ability to load 64 bit and 32 bit plugins and use all of the avalable RAM
But i find changing patches Using program changes in live mode ,unreliable at best.
I have put in a ticket regarding this subject Muse replied that the receptor in my case 2 pro max receptor 2s and a Qu4ttro can be "a bit quirky when it comes to this in live mode"
So i just use Mix mode if i need to switch between patches fast using program change.I send them using an ipad and an app called set list maker.its a shame that midi filtering is not so hot in mix mode.
You could allso try using snapshots in mix mode.
I ame shure Muse will fix the rack mode quirks sooner or later.
Regards Andy
i sometimes use live mode ,i find thatthere is sometimes a small delay before some patches load.
I have observed depends on how many patches are loaded into the live mode window and how mutch ram is avalable.
How mutch Ram do you have installed.?
Do you have multi core support enabled.?
Are the synths you have loaded 64 bit or 32.?
I rather like the rack mode GUI because it gives me the ability to load 64 bit and 32 bit plugins and use all of the avalable RAM
But i find changing patches Using program changes in live mode ,unreliable at best.
I have put in a ticket regarding this subject Muse replied that the receptor in my case 2 pro max receptor 2s and a Qu4ttro can be "a bit quirky when it comes to this in live mode"
So i just use Mix mode if i need to switch between patches fast using program change.I send them using an ipad and an app called set list maker.its a shame that midi filtering is not so hot in mix mode.
You could allso try using snapshots in mix mode.
I ame shure Muse will fix the rack mode quirks sooner or later.
Regards Andy
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nathankingcole nathankingcole https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=107457
- KVRist
- 224 posts since 15 May, 2006
I don't think this is a quirk-in Live Mode you can only load about 70% of available ram. When you select Live Mode for a tag the Receptor will start loading the patches form patch #1 until it hits the 70% of ram ceiling. At that point (in my experience) any patches that are already loaded into ram will switch fairly immediately. If a patch has not been loaded into ram, the receptor will start unloading patches on the furthest ends of the tag from the patch # being selected to make room for the patch you are trying to play: say you are playing patch #3 in the tag that has 10 patches, you may have patches #1-#6 automatically loaded into ram, if you trigger the program change for patch #10, patches #1-2 will be unloaded, then patch #10 (and likely #8 and 9 as well) will be loaded, hence the delay. If you then go back to patch 3 there will be no delay-it is still loaded. Load up your tag in live mode while viewing it with the Muse Remote Control. Watch which patches load and which don't-unloaded patches are italicised.
The thing that I wish Muse would fix-and I have addressed this in help desk tickets, is the hard 70% ram ceiling. I have spent many, many hours tailoring my main performance tag so that all the patches will fit into ram, as the way that I use the Receptor is not in a set list fashion and I need to be able to jump around the patches with no delay.
For me the frustration with this comes from spending a sizable amount of cash to have 16gb of ram but not be able to utilize quite a chunk of it! Live Mode is amazing and very stable once you get it set in the manner that I describe. If that feels too limiting, it will be necessary to stick with the set list approach and not jump more than 2 or so patches forward or back from the one you are on. It can help to have patches be multi-purpose and use volume/solo/mute controls on each channel in the patch. For instance, I have a patch with a rhoades sound, then a couple of channels with synth sounds that have their volume down that I can blend in using faders on my keyboard, rather than having a rhoades patch and a rhoades/synth patch both taking up ram.
I loved mix mode with all the amazing snapshot possibilities, but Live Mode does allow flexibility while keeping things a little simpler. I tended towards patches with 16 channels in mix mode-even though mutiple channels would be muted in a snapshot I would still need to keep track of controllers for all 16 channels to make adjustments, compared to having 6 or less channels in a patch in live mode.
The thing that I wish Muse would fix-and I have addressed this in help desk tickets, is the hard 70% ram ceiling. I have spent many, many hours tailoring my main performance tag so that all the patches will fit into ram, as the way that I use the Receptor is not in a set list fashion and I need to be able to jump around the patches with no delay.
For me the frustration with this comes from spending a sizable amount of cash to have 16gb of ram but not be able to utilize quite a chunk of it! Live Mode is amazing and very stable once you get it set in the manner that I describe. If that feels too limiting, it will be necessary to stick with the set list approach and not jump more than 2 or so patches forward or back from the one you are on. It can help to have patches be multi-purpose and use volume/solo/mute controls on each channel in the patch. For instance, I have a patch with a rhoades sound, then a couple of channels with synth sounds that have their volume down that I can blend in using faders on my keyboard, rather than having a rhoades patch and a rhoades/synth patch both taking up ram.
I loved mix mode with all the amazing snapshot possibilities, but Live Mode does allow flexibility while keeping things a little simpler. I tended towards patches with 16 channels in mix mode-even though mutiple channels would be muted in a snapshot I would still need to keep track of controllers for all 16 channels to make adjustments, compared to having 6 or less channels in a patch in live mode.
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- KVRist
- 144 posts since 20 Feb, 2013
I see your point.!
I have tried loading about 20 patches in set order into the live mode screen in rack mode and then sending program change to change them.
It didnt work out to well the patches changed randomly sometimes and ok other times,not very reliable.So i went back to mix mode for live use.its a shame because ide like to be able to use 64 bit plugins and and more RAM .
What have muse told you when you contacted them.
Regards andy
I have tried loading about 20 patches in set order into the live mode screen in rack mode and then sending program change to change them.
It didnt work out to well the patches changed randomly sometimes and ok other times,not very reliable.So i went back to mix mode for live use.its a shame because ide like to be able to use 64 bit plugins and and more RAM .
What have muse told you when you contacted them.
Regards andy
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- KVRist
- 144 posts since 20 Feb, 2013
Just a thaught but are the plugins you are using 64 or 32 bit .
If they Are 32 bit then you will only ever be Able to use max 4 gb of your 16 gig ram. Because as ime shure you already knowe 32 bit plugs can only adress a maximum 4 gb of ram.
If all instances are loaded at the start then 4 gb wont last long. What plugins are you loading i can try on my q4ttro an see if i get the same result.
andy
If they Are 32 bit then you will only ever be Able to use max 4 gb of your 16 gig ram. Because as ime shure you already knowe 32 bit plugs can only adress a maximum 4 gb of ram.
If all instances are loaded at the start then 4 gb wont last long. What plugins are you loading i can try on my q4ttro an see if i get the same result.
andy
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 21 Jan, 2016
Thanks Andy. I opened a ticket three days ago. No reply from Muse yet.
I'm in 32 bit mode. I'm using three plugins. Vb3, Opx pro iI, and pianoteq stage 5.
Again I realize I have ram limitation of 4gb. But like I said, all patches are loaded into ram while in live mode. I really only have about 35 total patches at this point.
I'm in 32 bit mode. I'm using three plugins. Vb3, Opx pro iI, and pianoteq stage 5.
Again I realize I have ram limitation of 4gb. But like I said, all patches are loaded into ram while in live mode. I really only have about 35 total patches at this point.
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nathankingcole nathankingcole https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=107457
- KVRist
- 224 posts since 15 May, 2006
I generally do not have issues with program changes or patch switching delays when I stay at about 16 patches in a performance tag. More than that and I can't fit it all in RAM and have had more issues with crashes. I'm curious if you would have the same issues if you had less patches in the tag (not a solution, but maybe helpful in diagnosing the issue).
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 21 Jan, 2016
I heard back from support. They said there will always be a slight delay changing patches in Live Mode.
Unfortunately it doesn't say that in the manual anywhere. What the manual says is '- Preset name appears in normal text: Preset is loaded and ready to play instantly.' What the manual should say - 'ready to play instantly after a short delay'
Unfortunately it doesn't say that in the manual anywhere. What the manual says is '- Preset name appears in normal text: Preset is loaded and ready to play instantly.' What the manual should say - 'ready to play instantly after a short delay'
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 21 Jan, 2016
Now that I'm on my laptop I can type easier and hopefully explain a little better.
My setup:
VIP version 1
Plugins:
VB3 Organ
OPX-Pro II
Pianoteq Stage 5
I setup about 35 patches in a Tagged list. These can be a single VB3 instance selecting a single sound, or a single Pianoteq instance selecting a single sound, or (2) instances of OP-X Pro II with a different sound for each instance. Or a combination of these.
These plugins are not sample based.
When I enter Live Mode, the entire list of 35 patches loads into RAM and all are apparently ready to play 'instantly'.
My tests using this setup always show a slight delay switching patches via midi program change. Some delays are longer than others. But always at least a 1 second delay happens. Sometimes 2 seconds or more, when loading a patch with different plugins. Remember these are NOT sample based plugins and all are already loaded into RAM in Live Mode.
I assumed Live Mode on Receptor using non sample based plugins and when they are all loaded into RAM would perform on par with Mainstage on Mac or Brainspawn Forte on Windows when changing program sounds. But it's just not the case. Mainstage and Forte change the patch instantly with no discernible delay at all.
So bottom line, DO NOT ASSUME Receptor Live Mode will change patches instantly using MIDI program changes, even when all patches are loaded into RAM and supposedly ready to play instantly. There is always a delay changing patches. At least that's my observations.
My setup:
VIP version 1
Plugins:
VB3 Organ
OPX-Pro II
Pianoteq Stage 5
I setup about 35 patches in a Tagged list. These can be a single VB3 instance selecting a single sound, or a single Pianoteq instance selecting a single sound, or (2) instances of OP-X Pro II with a different sound for each instance. Or a combination of these.
These plugins are not sample based.
When I enter Live Mode, the entire list of 35 patches loads into RAM and all are apparently ready to play 'instantly'.
My tests using this setup always show a slight delay switching patches via midi program change. Some delays are longer than others. But always at least a 1 second delay happens. Sometimes 2 seconds or more, when loading a patch with different plugins. Remember these are NOT sample based plugins and all are already loaded into RAM in Live Mode.
I assumed Live Mode on Receptor using non sample based plugins and when they are all loaded into RAM would perform on par with Mainstage on Mac or Brainspawn Forte on Windows when changing program sounds. But it's just not the case. Mainstage and Forte change the patch instantly with no discernible delay at all.
So bottom line, DO NOT ASSUME Receptor Live Mode will change patches instantly using MIDI program changes, even when all patches are loaded into RAM and supposedly ready to play instantly. There is always a delay changing patches. At least that's my observations.
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nathankingcole nathankingcole https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=107457
- KVRist
- 224 posts since 15 May, 2006
I don't have issues with delay in live mode on my quattro. In my setup I am using a mix of sample-based and modelling plugins. Most patches are 2-4 instances of Kontakt, 1 of lounge lizard, 1 or 2 of absynth, 3 guitar rig (2 for the sends one for guitar processing), with 16 patches in the tag using the full amount of ram allowed. I wonder if the difference between our experience with the delay has to do with the number of patches? Latency settings? It takes about 1.5-2 minutes for my whole tag to fully load (around 12 gb of data). If I try to send program changes before the whole tag is loaded there is a delay, but once all patches are loaded (which is definitely not instantly after selecting live mode) the switches are seamless.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 8 posts since 21 Jan, 2016
Some differences.
Slower processor on VIP version 1 vs Quattro.
VIP version 1 only has 4gb of RAM.
I'm running in 32 bit mode because VB3 is only 32 bit.
I tried building a smaller Tag list with only 10 patches in it. Still have the same delay load times. What I did notice was that the biggest delay happens when switching to a OPX-Pro II patch with 2 instances of OP-X. The first time I load the patch it takes about 2 seconds. Then if I switch away, then back to that patch, it loads fast like it should.
Maybe this is a problem with the OP-X plug-in.
Slower processor on VIP version 1 vs Quattro.
VIP version 1 only has 4gb of RAM.
I'm running in 32 bit mode because VB3 is only 32 bit.
I tried building a smaller Tag list with only 10 patches in it. Still have the same delay load times. What I did notice was that the biggest delay happens when switching to a OPX-Pro II patch with 2 instances of OP-X. The first time I load the patch it takes about 2 seconds. Then if I switch away, then back to that patch, it loads fast like it should.
Maybe this is a problem with the OP-X plug-in.
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nathankingcole nathankingcole https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=107457
- KVRist
- 224 posts since 15 May, 2006
I have had a couple of plugins that gave me trouble when loading. Garritan Personal Orchestra was one-there was a bug that would bring up a message window about ram usage that would stop the loading process. Perhaps it would be useful to load the first patch in your atg (not in live mode) then use program changes to go through each patch to see what happens when they load. It may be that the OP-X is doing something funny.
On my quattro I run in 64 bit mode and use several 32 bit plugins. The bit bridge option makes it work fine, and it doesn't seem to effect the way that I can use ram.
On my quattro I run in 64 bit mode and use several 32 bit plugins. The bit bridge option makes it work fine, and it doesn't seem to effect the way that I can use ram.
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- KVRist
- 103 posts since 10 Jan, 2007
Some plugins may do some precalculations when switched on. This could cause a delay (depending indeed on the CPU power). By the way, there is x64 version of VB3 although I am not sure whether it works on Receptor.
Fedde
Fedde