Waves central a complete bust!

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simon.a.billington wrote: I was requested the same thing, I'm on the other side of the planet almost!! But I was prepared to do a late night so they could help me out.
That's your choice, but it's not the only valid choice.
It's only Waves, not like they are the Internet police. Even so I had nothing to hide. No torrents, no rips no porn site bookmarks, no plans on how to make a pipe bomb.

I'm pretty sure you can see what they do right in front of you as they take control of your mouse.
Neither of those reasons are issues for me. The issue here is competence with respect to my system. I'm sorry, I don't trust anyone to do any work that changes files on my computer, end of discussion. So, if you're not willing to communicate what needs to be done so that can run through my own filter of whether that makes sense or not, then I won't use your support.

For me, this is just a level that is unnecessary for a problem that is Waves problem to solve, not the customers. I would think that if it's identifying a potential problem with their software that they would be a lot more understanding about customer's concerns.
It's a feature that has helped heaps out and pretty much constitutes the same as taking your computer in to get serviced by some tech physically.
It's a feature that is only necessary because waves decided to implement their own copy protection system and that system has bugs. Sorry, I don't care how many people it helps, running remote desktop on your machine and allowing someone to poke around is putting your system at risk. The remote system may itself be compromised, you don't know that it isn't.

Additionally, there may be complicated networking and security issues. My own network, for example, has multiple routers and there is no way that I'm mucking with the configuration so someone can fix something that shouldn't be broken in the first place.

It's a sledgehammer when a jeweler's hammer will do.
Except these guys won't go around deleting things on you.
You don't know that. I've worked on the technical side of computers all of my life. There is always the risk of someone making a mistake, I have made mistakes. The less someone knows about your system, the more likely they are to make such a mistake. My system, for example, does not have many of the libraries in the default places. The tech would have to ask questions anyway, and it's setup that way because I want it that way.
I'd keep an open mind about it, to be honest. It's the way a lot of tech support is done these days.
Companies that insist on RDPing into my machine to fix their problems won't be selling me anything. People should push back on this. There's no reason to believe that the guy on the other end is competent or trustworthy. You do know that many/most security breaches come from trusted sources? Every time I'm forced to deal with tech support, e.g. the cable company, I experience layers of incompetence and laziness. Tell me again why waves is different? Do they pay their tech support more than average? I'm sorry, I doubt that's true. The chances of running into someone who doesn't even know that they're doing something wrong is very high with any tech support experience.

If you have a bug that you can't reproduce, and a customer is offering to help you fix that bug, you should be a hell of a lot more appreciative than what I'm seeing here.

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ghettosynth wrote:
But, I'm in agreement with the other poster, you're not going to remote into my system to solve a problem. I too would just give up on waves, or anybody, at that point.
I can't see absolutely no reason not to let support remote to your machine. Maybe except if your computer is full of hard core gay porn and pirated software. But I doubt Waves support would even care.

Letting support connect is the best way to get it all figured out because this is the best way to troubelshoot for a tech. And it's completely secure as you can see everything that is taking place and the session is iniated by yourself with a randomly generated session id and password each time.

That Waves offers this option shows how far ahead they are from the rest when support is concerned.
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Isn't complaining about this issue to Waves and then not letting them help kind of like taking your car to a mechanic to get it fixed but not letting him open the hood? :roll:
Digital Studio: Studio One Pro 3, and too many plugins to list
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ghettosynth wrote:
Neither of those reasons are issues for me. The issue here is competence with respect to my system. I'm sorry, I don't trust anyone to do any work that changes files on my computer, end of discussion. So, if you're not willing to communicate what needs to be done so that can run through my own filter of whether that makes sense or not, then I won't use your support.

For me, this is just a level that is unnecessary for a problem that is Waves problem to solve, not the customers. I would think that if it's identifying a potential problem with their software that they would be a lot more understanding about customer's concerns.

It's a feature that is only necessary because waves decided to implement their own copy protection system and that system has bugs. Sorry, I don't care how many people it helps, running remote desktop on your machine and allowing someone to poke around is putting your system at risk. The remote system may itself be compromised, you don't know that it isn't.

Additionally, there may be complicated networking and security issues. My own network, for example, has multiple routers and there is no way that I'm mucking with the configuration so someone can fix something that shouldn't be broken in the first place.

It's a sledgehammer when a jeweler's hammer will do.
Sorry, but it pretty much shows you have no idea.
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robotmonkey wrote: Sorry, but it pretty much shows you have no idea.
Well, we can just agree to disagree on that, but it doesn't matter, it's my system. Just because you can see no reason doesn't mean that there isn't a reason.
Last edited by ghettosynth on Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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robotmonkey wrote: Letting support connect is the best way to get it all figured out because this is the best way to troubelshoot for a tech. And it's completely secure as you can see everything that is taking place and the session is iniated by yourself with a randomly generated session id and password each time.
It's not completely secure. Nothing is completely secure, but you're simply talking about one aspect of a security model.

You're also missing the point, I don't care what is the best way for the tech, I care what is the best way for me. I've done my fair share of computer system troubleshooting, I know that it can be tiresome to deal with customers, but I've been on the other end of the coin enough to know that inadequate techs are just as much of a problem.

Some people don't even like to connect their DAW to the internet, let alone grant someone else access to it remotely. My DAW is connected, but it's very much locked down.

I get that it's inefficient, that's of no moment to me.
That Waves offers this option shows how far ahead they are from the rest when support is concerned.
Offering it is fine, insisting on it is not. That's one step forward, and two back.

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Table Syrup Records wrote:So, what you guys are saying, is that support offered to remote with you.... and you refused.

They offered you support that you refused, and you're still having issues.

Stands to reason that you didn't do what you could have done, and you could be up and running without issues, had you let them support your issue.

You being unwilling to accept the support does not reflect poorly on them, it reflects poorly on you actually.

I have had remote sessions with Waves. It's no big deal.
If they need to do something that accesses root system stuff, your machine calls for your password - unless you don't have any security set up on your machine - which would be a shame on you again - and in the event this happens, you can request info on what they are doing.

There is nothing wrong with giving them access to resolve an issue. I have seen them run troubleshooting 'scripts' that quickly and easily perform a bunch of clean up and re-write functions that resolve loads of issues.

Let them help you.

And if not, don't complain about having issues, and blame them... that's absurd.
Lets establish some facts and perspectives about the support issue. I'll start with the fact that I'm not a lone wolf having this issue. I know this because I've actually seen similar complaints not just here on KVR. Since you don't have the problem, you obviously haven't done any research about it, thus your ignorant statements! This isn't an isolated problem that just came out of nowhere. The complaints started from the day Central was released. Even the latest update hasn't changed a thing. Here is some food for thought... Waves is apparently developing their apps with legacy Visual studio products. I previously mentioned before that they seemingly used a 2005 version of VS.

Microsoft is dropping support for a number of legacy products. They dropped support for .net versions 4.x through 4.5.1 after Jan. 12, 2016. I won't pretend to know a lot about programming, but I'm reasonably certain that the .net frameworks and visual studio go hand in hand. Microsoft wants to do away with legacy product usage and they're surely closing the gap. OH yeah...and for the naysayer's- mainstream support for visual studio versions of 2005 ended in 4/12/2011 and extended support ends 4/12/2016. You can read it here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=3041 -If you paid attention when central was installing, you'll see it installs 32bit & 64bit 2005 Redistributable packages. It's highly probable that central needs some sort of file or .NET Framework version that's not on my 64bit Win7 machine. This can easily be the difference of why some users on 64bit Windows don't have the issue. Central fully works on my 32bit system with no errors. Some programs report to the user about missing files or give some level of feedback about what happened, but central only says an error occurred.

My products were activated using central, but I had to use the older V9.3- 1.2GB installer to get my products installed, so it's not an issue of not being able to use them. It's more an issue of not being able to try demo's or update my products since central is the only means offered to get the latest products and updates. Seems to me that Waves could offer a diagnostic tool for download which is what Native Instruments does, which helped with an issue I had with a Maschine 2 update. I suspect the central issue will be resolved by June when extended support for VS-2005 officially ends in May and it's no longer feasible for Waves to use a decade old product for development, if that's what they've been doing- that is!

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everyPlugin.com wrote:Waves are aware that there is an issue with the Central for accounts that use non-english characters.
They are working on fixing this and should have a fix soon.
Oh, so that is the reason?

I have to say though, that I just can't understand this - a developer should be aware of potential problems of this sort and thus extensively test it during the beta-phase, no?

I find this EXTREMELY unprofessional! Someone should get the boot for this sort of crap!

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ghettosynth wrote: It's not completely secure. Nothing is completely secure, but you're simply talking about one aspect of a security model.
I'm not sure which they use, but most likely it is Teamviewer or LogMeIn, both of which are secure enough that we allow them in secure systems under various security standards and government mandated compliance laws when our software vendors need to do remote support. So I doubt that a regular Joe has that much to worry about.

Now I can certainly understand that one might want not want to let tech support to connect remotely, especially if ones computer is full of various shady stuff, but you can't blame Waves that they are not helping you. There's so far you can go with relying on users to provide you with needed information and troubleshooting steps. I think it's perfectly fine that if you have refused the remote support offer for Waves to put this case into the low priority status and say that we are dealing with it but when we actually see that we can expect some results.
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TheoM wrote: it's absolutely non standard practise.
It's absolutely a standard practice in pretty much all the enterprise software world where quick support is needed.
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pc2000 wrote: My products were activated using central, but I had to use the older V9.3- 1.2GB installer to get my products installed, so it's not an issue of not being able to use them. It's more an issue of not being able to try demo's or update my products since central is the only means offered to get the latest products and updates. Seems to me that Waves could offer a diagnostic tool for download which is what Native Instruments does, which helped with an issue I had with a Maschine 2 update. I suspect the central issue will be resolved by June when extended support for VS-2005 officially ends in May and it's no longer feasible for Waves to use a decade old product for development, if that's what they've been doing- that is!
Well there was this I stated earlier.
http://www.waves.com/downloads/soundgri ... e-required

Its a link to a Windows 7 Update (KB3033929) that installs needed ASIO frameworks, not to sure whether this will fix any issue.

I'm sure Waves is only using VS 2005 for backwards compatibility. It would be far to hard for them, to leverage or the later frameworks that other systems support if they were to do it themselves via VS 2015. Better memory management, multi-core support, graphic card support as examples.

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robotmonkey wrote:
TheoM wrote: it's absolutely non standard practise.
It's absolutely a standard practice in pretty much all the enterprise software world where quick support is needed.
Yep. Ive seen it done by many places for many years now, as per my earlier statement.

If you don't want a mechanic to have look at your car so they can figure out whats wrong with it, fine, but thats not what is considered bad practice.

Each computer is a unique environment denoted by out computers, our OS, DAW version, plugin versions, other plugins installed, audio drivers, graphic cards, other hardware and related drivers, other applications, background operations...

It's impossible to get an exact idea unless you treat each case in a unique manner, assuming that all common problems have been eliminated as being the source of the issue. If you have a unique issue there is no other way of knowing what the problem is unless you can get some eyes on it.

The only real alternative is to take your machine in, but your still giving them access to it.

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TEKing66 wrote:Isn't complaining about this issue to Waves and then not letting them help kind of like taking your car to a mechanic to get it fixed but not letting him open the hood? :roll:
Very much so, from the reading I got. You want the thing fixed but you really don't want to get it fixed. Kind of self defeating, that.
Barry
If a billion people believe a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing

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trimph1 wrote:
TEKing66 wrote:Isn't complaining about this issue to Waves and then not letting them help kind of like taking your car to a mechanic to get it fixed but not letting him open the hood? :roll:
Very much so, from the reading I got. You want the thing fixed but you really don't want to get it fixed. Kind of self defeating, that.
The problem though is the accessory. Not the car. They have no business poking around under your bonnet. :scared:
This is the same method MJ used when he was working on Anthony Marinelli's Thriller.

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