Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[Ingonator]

Okay, no problem.

Or just make an audio file and sent to me. make sure you keep it loud, aorund 0 db. Just one note, without release, just deacy. Use a sine wave. And give it time to decay properly. I will show you then screenshots.

I just checked this in Icarus (also using a Sine) and so far could not confirm any audible problem with te Decay there. I played the test patch as loud as possible.
Even if it would be possible to detect something with an analyzer at least i could not see a problem with "real" patches besides testing purposes.

[db3]

Nobody's going to notice that at -42dB

But that's original signal. Then it goes through compressors, limiters and other dynamic processors.

Even when Saurus is boosted to hell with compression I don't hear unnatural cutoff. I see no issue in real world use.

[chk071]

Just checked the behavior on both Sylenth1 and Spire's exponential and "linear" (which is also a bit exponential) envelopes, and on both, it smoothly fades out, so you definitely have a point there about Electra2's envelopes. Weird, as both synths (Spire since the 1.1 update) don't have an excessive CPU usage either, especially Sylenth1 is very light on CPU. Electra2 is remarkable light on CPU though, maybe that's one of the prices you pay for that. Even though it wasn't audible for me, at least on the dry signal.

[db3]

https://soundcloud.com/macnight/icarus-teaser-01

Thanks for this. If I were to guess the synth playing this, I'd say it's Dune2 - the same kind of very clean and a bit characterless sound. Maybe punchier a bit, better presence. Surely, this piece doesn't sound like other tone2 synths (I'd say, it sounds better).

To me this sounds kinda Waldorfy. Although I'm going to take this (excellent) demo with a pinch of salt, because Mac gets quite different sounds out of the T2 synths than most of their sound designers.

[Igro]

Okay, no problem.

Or just make an audio file and sent to me. make sure you keep it loud, aorund 0 db. Just one note, without release, just deacy. Use a sine wave. And give it time to decay properly. I will show you then screenshots.

I just checked this in Icarus (also using a Sine) and so far could not confirm any audible problem with te Decay there. I played the test patch as loud as possible.
Even if it would be possible to detect something with an analyzer at least i could not see a problem with "real" patches besides testing purposes.

Hi Ingo! But you conformed before editing that there is an issue with ElectraX 2.

[Ingonator]

Hi Ingo! But you conformed before editing that there is an issue with ElectraX 2.

I think that this thread was already derailed enough by this discussion and I think if you would like to discuss this further opening another thread would be a better idea.
After doing a search at KVR i also found that you discussed this in multiple Tone2 threads since around 2012 or earlier. Until today you seemed to be the only one having real problems with that, opposing to people that do use Tone2 synths for sound design and/or doing tracks with those.

For this thread the important thing is that i did not find any audible Decay related problem in Icarus yet.

Even if you would be able to find something with an analyzer or zooming into a WAV file then If it is not audible it is also not really relevant IMO.
Even if there would be an issue that could be detected by analyzing a sample then In "real world" use in a track or even when playing a single patch this shoulld also not really matter.

As Icarus is not released yet of course i would not post audio demos or screenshots of my tests with it yet and also posting the detailed results of such tests could be against the NDA (while i alraedy recorded 2 WAV files using Icarus and checked them in Wavelab Elements 7).

[chk071]

https://soundcloud.com/macnight/icarus-teaser-01

Thanks for this. If I were to guess the synth playing this, I'd say it's Dune2 - the same kind of very clean and a bit characterless sound. Maybe punchier a bit, better presence. Surely, this piece doesn't sound like other tone2 synths (I'd say, it sounds better).

To me this sounds kinda Waldorfy. Although I'm going to take this (excellent) demo with a pinch of salt, because Mac gets quite different sounds out of the T2 synths than most of their sound designers.

Although i probably wouldn't have know it if it wasn't clear that it's a Tone2 synth, but i also hear a lot of Tone2 in there (especially the filter sound). But agreed, the Tone2 synths sound a bit Waldorfish, and also a bit Virusish IMO.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

$2?
https://www.patreon.com/MacofBIOnighT?ty=h
... I might just be tempted ...

Ah ah, thanks It'll be quite a while before the album is out, though. I was thinking of releasing it along with a soundbank, as I did for Memoirs (made with Nemesis), so it all depends on whether and when Tone2 will be interested in releasing a bank by me...
As to BIOnighT's albums, yes, I'm glad they are finally available again, after all the problems with my ex-musical partner that lasted years and that have now been solved - quite a relief

[Mac of BIOnighT]

https://soundcloud.com/macnight/icarus-teaser-01

Thanks for this. If I were to guess the synth playing this, I'd say it's Dune2 - the same kind of very clean and a bit characterless sound. Maybe punchier a bit, better presence. Surely, this piece doesn't sound like other tone2 synths (I'd say, it sounds better).

To me this sounds kinda Waldorfy. Although I'm going to take this (excellent) demo with a pinch of salt, because Mac gets quite different sounds out of the T2 synths than most of their sound designers.

Thanks, it's a very nice compliment for me After all a synth allows one to create just about any sound one can think of, so it's all in the sounds one thinks of, if the machine is good enough to keep up with the imagination

[Mac of BIOnighT]

It's already three or four pages back, so here it is again: https://soundcloud.com/macnight/icarus-teaser-01

[Igro]

Hi Ingo! But you conformed before editing that there is an issue with ElectraX 2.

I think that this thread was already derailed enough by this discussion and I think if you would like to discuss this further opening another thread would be a better idea.
After doing a search at KVR i also found that you discussed this in multiple Tone2 threads since around 2012 or earlier. Until today you seemed to be the only one having real problems with that, opposing to people that do use Tone2 synths for sound design and/or doing tracks with those.

For this thread the important thing is that i did not find any audible Decay related problem in Icarus yet.

Even if you would be able to find something with an analyzer or zooming into a WAV file then If it is not audible it is also not really relevant IMO.
Even if there would be an issue that could be detected by analyzing a sample then In "real world" use in a track or even when playing a single patch this shoulld also not really matter.

As Icarus is not released yet of course i would not post audio demos or screenshots of my tests with it yet and also posting the detailed results of such tests could be against the NDA (while i alraedy recorded 2 WAV files using Icarus and checked them in Wavelab Elements 7).

thanks for quoting Markus! This is really his style of writing and ignoring quality issues. Did you do copy/paste? Ingo, you are changing your own opinions too fast, replacing them with develpers' opinions? Where is qritical thinking?

[Ingonator]

thanks for quoting Markus! This is really his style of writing and ignoring quality issues. Did you do copy/paste? Ingo, you are changing your own opinions too fast, replacing them with develpers' opinions? Where is qritical thinking?

Sorry but I did not "quote" or copy/paste anything from Markus.

I am also not "ignoring" possible issues but at the moment Icarus testing and sound design is #1 priority for me (and i guess also for Markus). As i already mentioned in Icarus i did not found any audible issue. Independent of if you could find something with an audio editor or not if it is not audible it is no real problem IMO.

In Electra 2.1 there is maybe a different problem but i have no time to really care about that and i am also sure that Markus is focused at Icarus at the moment. Anyway even in cases wher am able to find "something" like i juist did with Electra 2.1 the question is if this matters in "real life" patches and/or "real life" applications of those patches. IMO it does not as the conditions that were necessary to recognize a possible issue are far from how you typically use a patch at sound design and/or during a track and if you would not have done the measurements you did i guess that still nobodx would have really noticed that.
So is OK to find and report possible issues but at end end it matters if this is really important during the practical use of the plugin (beyond certain measurement and/or specific tests). So personally i would say that at least with Electra 2.1 there is a possible issue but i would rate it as lower priority (and i guess Markus did the same). I'll try to check this further in the near future but not really until Icarus is released.
FWIW i made some patches in Icarus that have a Volume Sustain of 0 and i did not notice a specific envelope Decay related problem while playing with those.


PS:
As already mentioned it wouild be better to discuss this topic in your own new thread instead of posting this in existing Tone2 related threads like this (and others in the past).

[EnGee]

thanks for quoting Markus! This is really his style of writing and ignoring quality issues. Did you do copy/paste? Ingo, you are changing your own opinions too fast, replacing them with develpers' opinions? Where is qritical thinking?

Sorry but I did not "quote" or copy/paste anything from Markus.

I am also not "ignoring" possible issues but at the moment Icarus testing and sound design is #1 priority for me (and i guess also for Markus). As i already mentioned in Icarus i did not found any audible issue. Independent of if you could find something with an audio editor or not if it is not audible it is no real problem IMO.

In Electra 2.1 there is maybe a different problem but i have no time to really care about that and i am also sure that Markus is focused at Icarus at the moment. Anyway even in cases wher am able to find "something" like i juist did with Electra 2.1 the question is if this matters in "real life" patches and/or "real life" applications of those patches. IMO it does not as the conditions that were necessary to recognize a possible issue are far from how you typically use a patch at sound design and/or during a track and if you would not have done the measurements you did i guess that still nobodx would have really noticed that.
So is OK to find and report possible issues but at end end it matters if this is really important during the practical use of the plugin (beyond certain measurement and/or specific tests). So personally i would say that at least with Electra 2.1 there is a possible issue but i would rate it as lower priority (and i guess Markus did the same). I'll try to check this further in the near future but not really until Icarus is released.
FWIW i made some patches in Icarus that have a Volume Sustain of 0 and i did not notice a specific envelope Decay related problem while playing with those.


PS:
As already mentioned it wouild be better to discuss this topic in your own new thread instead of posting this in existing Tone2 related threads like this (and others in the past).

But he already said "I noticed it not by using wave editors, but using ears. But that is just me. It was important to me, when i did some minimal music."

Anyway, he just asked if Icarus has the same 'feature' to cut the unnecessary tail of the decay!

So, this envelop is not used in modulating anything? How do you know it has no effect? Did you report this to the developer? Is that his answer that it is not important?

[Igro]

I'm not sure why some telling it's not audible? The image was done based on chk071 audio sample. Use headphones and everything will be clear. Here is the file:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s17F8YyoKhy9
or here
https://clyp.it/y0n5ktu3

There is even a click in the end. And Tone2 says - "The instrument is equipped with a high-end quality sound engine...."

or this

"And with Tone2's high quality sound technology at its core, you're not only working with a greater palette for creating original sounds, but also the best sound quality possible"

[db3]

Well I was reporting on Saurus, and there's no audible issue with the tail there. I just installed the ElectraX demo, and there is certainly no click in the tail....unlike the audio file.