MeldaProduction

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:30 pm

Hello Vojtech.

In Transient there are 3 different output modes:
Normal, Difference and Transients.

I would like a fourth mode added please:
Sustain. This would allow us to hear only the sustain element without any transient.

Use example:
In MXXX I could set up 2 lanes, 1 with only the transients audible and the other with only the sustain audible. When played together there would be no difference at all, but this would allow me to independently process the 2 elements. Like mid/side processing but transient/sustain.
For example, I could add some chorus and reverb to the sustain part but leave the transient dry. This would fatten up the sound but leave the attack with bite so it cuts through the mix and doesn't get pushed back. Or the other way round I could frequency shift the transient to make more of a click sound on the attack but not want to frequency shift the whole sound.

I would also like this same principal to be added to Gate.
It would be nice if there was an invert button on the gate, that would allow us to hear the opposite. We would here everything bellow the threshold but nothing above.
Same principals apply here. If I use 2 lanes in MXXX one with the gate normal and the other with the gate inverted. The signal will sound exactly the same as it did, no change. But now I would have independent control over the 2 parts.
This would allow us to make dynamic FX where a reverb for example could be applied only above the threshold.
This technique has recently been discussed in the forum with regards to izotops's DDLY. DDLY is basically a dynamic delay that has 2 delay lines, 1 for above the threshold and the other for below.

We can split the signal up in lots of ways with Melda plugins and process these independently of each other. Mid/Side, Left/Right and Frequency bands. Why not dynamically too?

vectorwarrior · Post by **vectorwarrior** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:34 pm

+1
I use the transient output to setup the resolution time, it's super useful for setup. As it currently stands, I have no way of knowing what impact the controls have over the sustain portion. This would help address that.

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:15 pm

... meanwhile, while Vojtech implements this very sensible suggestion (output = input - transient)

, this approach might be worth exploring:

>>> http://i.imgur.com/NplBwLQ.png

-- use Transient to keep the transients on lane 1
-- use Utility to invert the phase of the incoming audio
-- Mix it with the transients (which will null with the inverted originals
-- add Chorus, Reverb etc to taste
-- use another Utility to invert the phase again.

I added MMultiAnalyzer to see the before (red) and after sustain (green) waveforms

>>> http://i.imgur.com/j5IgWCd.png

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:20 pm

PS Info page text change:
From:

Output defines type of the output signal. You can eight listen to the output signal, or listen to the added (resp. subtracted) signal, or to the transients themself.

to:

Output defines the type of the output signal. You can listen to the complete output signal, the added (or subtracted) signal, or to the transients themselves.

And, after the feature request:

Output defines the type of the output signal. You can listen to the complete output signal, the added (or subtracted) signal, the transients themselves, or to the non-transient periods (sustains).

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:31 pm

DarkStar wrote:... meanwhile, while Vojtech implements this very sensible suggestion (output = input - transient) , this approach might be worth exploring:

>>> http://i.imgur.com/NplBwLQ.png

-- use Transient to keep the transients on lane 1
-- use Utility to invert the phase of the incoming audio
-- Mix it with the transients (which will null with the inverted originals
-- add Chorus, Reverb etc to taste
-- use another Utility to invert the phase again.

I added MMultiAnalyzer to see the before (red) and after sustain (green) waveforms

>>> http://i.imgur.com/j5IgWCd.png

Great. ha ha. I was trying the phase cancellation technique but it wasn't working for some reason. I realize now that I didn't do the 2nd phase invert, silly me. Thanks.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:11 pm

Seems logical, will add to to-do list

.

EDIT: Which Gate are you talking about? Anyways most dynamics processors have the "Diff" button, which lets you do just that

.

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:37 pm

I'm taking about inside MXXX and the dynamics gate does not have a diff button.

Thanks, for adding to the todo list.

Another option rather than adding an option to the gate would be to make a module FX, that is a dynamic split. A simple control that lets you set a threshold and everything above the threshold goes to lane and everything below the threshold to lane 2?

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:41 pm

You can do that gate thing in MXXX simply using math (subtract). But as for the module that would split - added to todo.

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:54 pm

Yeah ,your right. Phase cancellation?
I have been doing it that way with great results, just a bit fiddly to set up.

Thanks so much for adding it to the todo list, much appreciated.

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:14 pm

indeed

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:48 pm

MeldaProduction wrote:You can do that gate thing in MXXX simply using math (subtract). But as for the module that would split - added to todo.

Oh, now I see what you mean! very cool. This is the first time I have used the math module for something. Its a lot simpler than using 2 utilities to invert phase then back again.

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:01 pm

^^^
I've never used 'Math' either (not sure what some of those operations would do to an audio signal

. I came up with the following routing; the timegraph shows the transient and the effected sustain:

>>> http://i.imgur.com/weKiEgx.png

PS It would be named 'Maths' in English, English

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:10 pm

DarkStar wrote:^^^
I've never used 'Math' either (not sure what some of those operations would do to an audio signal . I came up with the following routing; the timegraph shows the transient and the effected sustain:

>>> http://i.imgur.com/weKiEgx.png

PS It would be named 'Maths' in English, English

That looks just about correct

.

And yeah, well, we are redefining English! Embrace the evolution!

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:31 am

Curious (but not nagging

) - how is adding the "Sustain" output coming along?

(OK I admit it, I had another case today when it would have helped a lot).

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:42 am

DarkStar wrote:Curious (but not nagging ) - how is adding the "Sustain" output coming along?

(OK I admit it, I had another case today when it would have helped a lot).

Just use the level crossover with the follower set to transient modulation. It gives you way more control.
Do you follow, or shall I show an example?

MeldaProduction

KVR Audio

FR: Dynamic Split