Envelope help -SOLVED - CS Piky Mux on page4

[sl23]

Can someone please enlighten me as to how to achieve this basic parameter.

I've spent around six hours trying to figure this out and it's starting to drive me nuts!

Basically what I have done is try to emulate a 32bit VST to eliminate it so I can transfer to 64bit MuLab. It's called Piky, by colorspace. Here is a link for it on VST4Free.com. I'm no expert with Mux and so find it difficult to emulate the plucking and plinking very well if someone could advise me better how to achieve that too I'd be grateful. I can't seem to get the smooth sound even using a plain sine wave.

Anyway, the Sustain issue... I have Decay and Release, but the preset envelope doesn't work the same as Piky.
Which by the way, no longer seems to work in M7.

In the VST, press and hold a note and the note is dampened as you would expect on a piano. Press and release a note and it continues to resonate for the designated release time.

The Mux Preset works the opposite way around and doesn't seem to dampen very quickly.

How would I reverse this process using envelopes? Is that the point of the Multipoint Envelope?
And how do I reduce the dampening time.

I'm also curious why the envelope doesn't have a Sustain Time? On Roland's synths there was two parameters for Sustain Level and Sustain Time. So you'd define how loud the Sustain portion was and how long it lasted, how do you achieve this in Mux?

Thanks for your help.

[MuTools]

I'm also curious why the envelope doesn't have a Sustain Time?

First time i hear about "sustain time". Sustain means holding the value until note-off. It's only defined by a level.

[sl23]

Hmm, I'll check the manual, haven't these synths for around 8 years now so could be wrong!

[sl23]

Sorry my mistake it appears that the XP-60 had a 5 part TVA Envelope. Attack, Decay, then a Decay/Sustain portion, then Sustain and finally Release.

It still stands though that the way the envelope works is in reverse to the VST. Or maybe it's not the envelope at fault? Actually I know it's my poor knowledge of programming, but this is where I could do with some help. I don't want to take up your time Jo, especially at this critical time, so if you'd rather leave it and hopefully some kind person will help out?!

Thanks

[MuTools]

Yes i also hope some more experienced synthisians will help out sl23. At the same time, sl23, do study the basics of sound physics and synth programming. Search the net, there are many good sources where you can learn the basics of sound waves, oscillators, filters, envelopes, modulation (AM, PM, FM, RM, ...) It's a wonderfull adventure in the world of sound!

[bibz1st]

Just done a quick mock up, not exactly like it but this is similar, I havent changed anything about the envelope, I think its more to do with how quickly you lift your finger off the key after playing it, oh and the reverb too, what do you think

[sl23]

It's good, but still not quite there when holding a note. Piky goes silent on holding notes down, but your example doesn't, why is that? Is it possible to do this in Mux?

If you wish to check, here is my poor effort! Though it does give some super-harsh sounds too!

I tried to achieve what I wanted by combining envelope parameters via Meta-params. But don't think it's helped at all. I admit when it comes to something like this I haven't a clue.

[bibz1st]

All you have to do is set the Env sustain to zero, lower the reverb Decay setting accordingly too.
I butchered the default Basic synth patch so ignore the Metaparameters just use the modules as is.

[sl23]

Well, to see how the envelope worked in your version, I changed all my settings to match and ended up where I started! The Sustain doesn't end. Play a note and let go, it tails off smoothly. Play & hold and you get a similar drop in volume to Piky.vst but the sustain level keeps it from reaching zero volume. How do you get around this?

I have contained everything in one level Mux as opposed to PolySynth as a child, does this matter?

Also, Piky.vst uses a Sine for Osc1, I'm curious, why did you use a square?

Thanks for your help bibz1st

EDIT: I already tried setting Sustain to zero but you don't get that tail without reverb being on.

[Taifunk]

I think bibz1st can help more than me on this
I have done something similar to the xp 60 envelope ,modified your patch with a mp-envelope
hope can be useful
I have to check this piki, it looks interesting and your patch sounds good
edit:play a bit with attack and release speed and if necessary move the last point to increase the release

[sl23]

Thanks Taifunk, I'll check it out. Glad you like my patch, it took me ages to get where it is now, but it still sounds nothing like the CS Piky.vst, perhaps they used samples to get the sound? Surely Mux can emulate something like this? I thought it'd be quite straightforward, how wrong I was!

[sl23]

The MPE seems more responsive to my playing but is doing the reverse of what I wanted, as is the original envelope. Holding a note down actually stops the note. Like a piano hammer dampens the vibrations of a string. Just had a thought, I'll check the piano presets!

EDIT: Strange, even the Stand-in Piano envelope works the same? Have I got this all wrong? Or rather has Piky? Is this an abnormal thing to do? I thought that's how a pianos mechanism worked. It's like holding a rubber band between two fingers and twanging it, hold it the vibration stops. Obviously synthesisers are different beasts as they generate abnormal sounds. But I can't see why this isn't possible to achieve in Mux.

[Taifunk]

I understand now , pardon, but my English is really bad
I've just made a similar xp 60 envelope,at the moment I can not test Piky later I'll check,and certainly mux can do this
edit: Please pay no attention to my writing errors
I'm going to see how to get this

[bibz1st]

Well, to see how the envelope worked in your version, I changed all my settings to match and ended up where I started! The Sustain doesn't end. Play a note and let go, it tails off smoothly. Play & hold and you get a similar drop in volume to Piky.vst but the sustain level keeps it from reaching zero volume. How do you get around this?

I have contained everything in one level Mux as opposed to PolySynth as a child, does this matter?

Also, Piky.vst uses a Sine for Osc1, I'm curious, why did you use a square?

Thanks for your help bibz1st

EDIT: I already tried setting Sustain to zero but you don't get that tail without reverb being on.

Try not to over complicate it, you dont need to connect any parameters together and I dont think a 3rd Osc is necessary. Maybe its Sine for Osc 1 and Square for 2 up an octave maybe. I just used my ears and that sounded nearer to me ( but I do have tinnitus )
Decay should be short, Sustain should be zero and Rls should be, well, whatever you want it to be.
Make sure when striking the note to release very quickly to get that tail.
I must go to bed now so I will have to look again tomorrow, maybe Taifunk will nail it first, just keep it simple.

[sl23]

Thank you for your help, both of you. I'm off to bed myself. Will look at it again tomorrow hopefully.