strange MDynamicEQ behaviour

[ZentralmassivSound]

Hi Vojtech,

I have setup two bands in MDynamicEQ to serve as DeEssers, catching different parts of the harsh sounds. I tuned in filtering/thresholds of the sidechains individually so each band works perfectly on my material. Now I observed that when both in use, the dynamic gains gets triggered more often than when each of the bands is working alone (or if I create two instances of MDynamicEQ and let each one process one band). Somehow they seem to influence each other. Probably the prefiltering used for the sidechains is messed up, or some other bug?

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

[DarkStar]

I pasted that into Preset A on the right-hand side but do not see any active bands

[ZentralmassivSound]

Hm Ctrl-C didn't seem to work, so this should do (clicked on the copy button this time):

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

[DarkStar]

That's better, all I need now is a suitable sample

OK - I'm not sure about being triggered more often but they do overlap and affect each other (but that I would expect with the Q settings). I triplicated my track
(a) with one band active (lower band - green colour)
(b) with the other band active (upper band - red colour)
(c) with both bands active
and added MMultiAnalyzer to all three. In these screenshots the top one shows the effect of each band individually and the lower one shows the effect of both bands (blue grey colour)

>>> http://i.imgur.com/T9mNGFW.png

-----------------
PS: The more I use MMultiAnalyzer the more useful it becomes, confirming what I hear. Everybody needs this plug-in

[ZentralmassivSound]

Well of course they add up in their effect on the audio material when they both get triggered. But the threshold when each band triggers should not be affected by the setup of some other band.

I can't share the vocal sample here where you can observe the behaviour, unfortunately. I'll have to email it to Vojtech so he can check.

[ZentralmassivSound]

OK I have cut out a really short snippet so nobody would recognize this or have objections.
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3347 ... nippet.wav

It does not contain any "s" or "t" sounds so the DeEsser should not trigger. If you try band 3 or band 4 separately, they won't trigger. However if you activate both, they both trigger.


I slightly changed the thresholds for demo purposes:

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

[DarkStar]

Right - I see what you're saying now.

Weirdly, I moved the Band [3] down to about 500Hz and Band [4] still triggered.

[jmg8]

It's because of the band pass in advanced settings.

[ZentralmassivSound]

that still shouldn't lead to bands interacting in their threshold behaviour

[jmg8]

I don't think they are interacting.
Disable the band pass and the problem goes away.
Band 3s threshold is too high and band 4s Q is so wide it looks as though both bands are triggering, when it'sactually just band 4.

[ZentralmassivSound]

Well as I described: try only band 3 activated - it does not trigger. Try only band 4 activated - it does not trigger. Activate both band 3 and 4 - they trigger (or at least one of them). That shouldn't happen.

[ZentralmassivSound]

Also, the level scaling seems to affect attack and release times which is kind of unexpected. If I set a 5000ms release, it releases slowly as expected. But if I change the level scaling to 200%, the release goes a lot faster.

BTW, could we have look-ahead for the dynamics processor here, too?

[MeldaProduction]

Ok, so what's the situation? No time to read all the conversation .

[ZentralmassivSound]

OK so, this little wav snippet with the preset below demonstrates the problem.

If only band 3 or only band 4 is active, neither of them triggers. However if you activate both, they trigger, which should not be the case.


http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3347 ... nippet.wav

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[DarkStar]

What I see here:
Using ZentralmassivSound's preset and sample, Band [3] by itself does not trigger, Band [4] by itself triggers a little, but with both activated both Bands trigger more.