KVR Audio

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:50 pm

HiEnergy wrote:I gave Sinnah a try, especially its capabilities when it comes to percussion sounds.
This is what I came up with after some hours of work: https://soundcloud.com/hienergy/osc86-attempt1

Had to use lots of "forbidden" tricks to pull this off (e.g. automation of parameters that aren't meant to be automated, hard compression, overdrive etc.)

Hello,
there are no parameters that aren't meant to be automated, <wink>

your attempt reminds me of water percussions, interesting!

Have you checked my message above?

Cheers

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:17 pm

Many thanks Taron and bj!

I just copy your message in my "to do" notes, and will work on that.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:29 pm

Here's a quick test I did... I voodoo fixed the snare by turning on/off ADSR2wav a few times

...just so it would hold for a recording. Fixed the main sounds somewhat so they won't echo (|memory| lag:0.25 worked fine when first created, failed after reload doing echos instead of desired effect!).

No effects on anything except some EQing and Limiter.
https://soundcloud.com/taronium/osc86-test/s-mKQm3

This ain't my song for OSC...way, way, way too boring for that!

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:40 pm

Some details.

Taron wrote:Hey, thanks for jumping in on this!
I'm using MuLab (6.5.35 and 7.0.15) I'm on Windows 7 professional (64bit), using internal Realtek on this, no asio.

Do you use Sinnah x64 or the other DLL?

I did have automation on some parameters such as tune, which could be sensitive, judging by the volatile nature of the waveform generation?!

Automation of fine tune could be an issue, it should not but I will check.

Your polyphony routine needs a very, very close looking at! I'm familiar with these troubles such as hanging notes, while my own routine does only replace old notes, allowing for some greater consistency once the limit has been reached. The trouble is the difference between the midi data processing and the actual audio processing! If you gave conditions to turn off a note during processing, your midi routine may miss it, for example.

The problem in Sinnah may come from the relative difference of release time in feedback AR and the main ADSR. Yes I have to check closely as you say.

However, there's more: However you generate waveforms, they most certainly don't stay consistent. Loading up a sound again will result in drastically different sounds. I've had a fairly simple snare, which started to sound quite nicely, but after reload the previously smooth waveform got a radical kink in it, creating a sharp buzzing instead. I ran into that four times before resigning for now.
Seems like it's some odd continuous procedure that picks up where the last preset left it in one way or another. It's like there's no initialization upon which to rely.

Yeah that's a challenge beacuse I don't guarantee right now the waveforms to be exactly the same!
So until we'll change that, freeze your track when it sounds good! (note that this is mostly relevant for percusssive sounds)

Boy, oh, boy, I really wished I could tell you some nicer things. Hmmm...within on session and good care, one can create some really interesting sounds with it.
In my second big attempt I've created a number of really elegant sounding tracks before it starting hanging up notes when playback got interrupted and restart became the only option. I was almost happy! Loading it back up created a number of unfortunate issues such as |memory| based sounds suddenly decided to echo instead of what they did before and, of course, the ruined percussion section.

hanging notes should go away with a switch to poly|mono and back, the echo should not change on reload, I will check that.

[skipping, but registerd]

Additional request/wondering:
- felt like it could be nice to have a blending balance for the 3 "all pass filters" (I presume). It's so damn hard to control them.

Yes I see, so far you can switch off 1 and balance 2 and 3 in stereo at least.

Last thought:
- The EQ is the shimmer of hope to have some more control over the sound, but I think it could get one more option to help even more by allowing to zero out all and only have the band peak act...kind of like an inversion of what you have already.

Good idea, sort of reversing the curve, or just making the bell active?

I'm well aware, as is apparent, that you are trying to keep the controls to a minimum, which is nice. My feedback is strictly in that spirit, because of it. I think, you have a great experiment going there and already wish you both all the best! I also hope you get some of this fixed. Most notably crashes and initialization!

Thanks again!

Dragonsongz · Post by **Dragonsongz** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:51 pm

Yo, Sinnah is freaking crazy man. Somehow I managed to squeeze out this thing:

https://soundcloud.com/real_skylake/sinnah-bass-test

This vst has all my yes

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:54 pm

Yep, just making the bell active, exactly!

Yeah, check putting lag to 0.25 or some 0.x and use MEMORY. While designing the sound for the first time it won't have problems, but loading it back will act as if it was on 0, I think, which somehow becomes a highly delayed echo?!

Hanging notes are hard to check for, but you may try using a super high latency for a test and play and stop notes inside the latency time! That can give clues. I use SAVIhost for some of these tests during development. It's kind of a raw deal with it, but it's helpful for sure!

Consistent waveforms are relevant for every sound, believe me. You can always have an option to "be wild", but when you're really making a track, you kinda wonna have it sound familiar later on, hehehe.

Cool that you're looking into all that! Your thing really deserves it!

Dragonsongz · Post by **Dragonsongz** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:55 pm

Taron wrote:Here's a quick test I did... I voodoo fixed the snare by turning on/off ADSR2wav a few times ...just so it would hold for a recording. Fixed the main sounds somewhat so they won't echo (|memory| lag:0.25 worked fine when first created, failed after reload doing echos instead of desired effect!).

No effects on anything except some EQing and Limiter.
https://soundcloud.com/taronium/osc86-test/s-mKQm3

This ain't my song for OSC...way, way, way too boring for that!

Boring? Call me a simpleton then, because you could submit that for osc, and I'd vote it high!

bjporter · Post by **bjporter** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:57 pm

Dragonsongz wrote:Boring? Call me a simpleton then, because you could submit that for osc, and I'd vote it high!

I always find that fascinating in the OSC, how people have very different tastes

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:02 pm

No effects on anything except some EQing and Limiter.
https://soundcloud.com/taronium/osc86-test/s-mKQm3

Hey I'm amazed! All Sinnah? You really know how to handle your babies Taron

Yo, Sinnah is freaking crazy man. Somehow I managed to squeeze out this thing:

https://soundcloud.com/real_skylake/sinnah-bass-test

Wow an angry mad monk singing, great!

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:11 pm

Ehehehehe, thanks guys!

That's very sweet! Yeah, I'm telling you, there's certainly something in your synth idea and with a little TLC... lots is possible!

I mean, I'm playing with it now for the second time since yesterday and the troubles left me little time to really, really get into it. The power of your concept is, well...in the concept! Iron out the kinks, make it strong, solid and reliable and there's plenty of magic waiting to happen with it! Just hand it over then, hehehehehehe.... but, yeah, in my (first) synth I hooked up a phaser per note, which sounds odd on paper, but it has tremendous power to form complex sounds, being able to link its frequency to the note and on and on, but I had encountered some of the challenges you may have there and it extremely rewarding to master them!

And, yes, it's all Sinnah, nothing else (+EQ and limiter)!

(I should add that, honestly, it sounded different the first time around...kinda sad I couldn't keep the main sound that first sounded like a really, really interesting guitar...but well. Here's hope that soon those can be keepers!

)

RuediRena · Post by **RuediRena** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:37 pm

Alright, have declared this one Impossible Preview. Seems to be in a kind of SinnahAlphaBetaS(t)uckInbetween state. Have experienced severe multiple stuck notes nearly after each replay

This might as well be all I want to do with her royal sickness Sinnah, so have fun or whatever (but beware of SoundCloud's hideous compression mode, better download for listening):

https://soundcloud.com/ruedirena/ruedir ... le-preview

This is so sick ...

Dragonsongz · Post by **Dragonsongz** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:08 pm

I feel kinda bad about posting my track so early in the competition (that and I might get bored in the meantime), but I genuinely have no idea what else to do with this track XD

So, ladies and gentleman, I present you with "The Lavender Airship"!

https://soundcloud.com/real_skylake/the ... er-airship

A strange combination of the classic Lavender Town theme with the slightly more obscure Airship theme from Super Mario Bros 3. All made with 9 Sinnahs, and about the same amount of automation tracks.

I know I said "combination", but it's more like inspiration. I probably don't need to make that distinction, but I'd rather play it safe.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:08 pm

This was my first test with Sinnah, but this just keeps crashing (ACCESS VIOLATION, by the way, as one would expect, I guess!). I can run it for a few minutes and then it will most certainly crash. The crash, though, may have nothing to do with the automated tune, unless it keeps doing something in the background, because it crashes without playing that particular sound.

Anyway, thought it could become a fun tune. Maybe, should that issue get fixed, I'd continue with it, because I think it's got something...

https://soundcloud.com/taronium/sinnah-test01/s-20s08

All Sinnah, only a few reverbs, pingpong delay, EQ and limiter. Vibrato of that sort of singing lead is with a (modulation wheel controlled) LFO on tuning and output volume.

Dragonsongz · Post by **Dragonsongz** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:12 pm

Taron wrote:This was my first test with Sinnah, but this just keeps crashing (ACCESS VIOLATION, by the way, as one would expect, I guess!). I can run it for a few minutes and then it will most certainly crash. The crash, though, may have nothing to do with the automated tune, unless it keeps doing something in the background, because it crashes without playing that particular sound.

Anyway, thought it could become a fun tune. Maybe, should that issue get fixed, I'd continue with it, because I think it's got something...
https://soundcloud.com/taronium/sinnah-test01/s-20s08

All Sinnah, only a few reverbs, pingpong delay, EQ and limiter. Vibrato of that sort of singing lead is with a (modulation wheel controlled) LFO on tuning and output volume.

I do hope you continue it. It's quite nice!

liqih · Post by **liqih** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:46 pm

Taron wrote:This was my first test with Sinnah, but this just keeps crashing (ACCESS VIOLATION, by the way, as one would expect, I guess!). I can run it for a few minutes and then it will most certainly crash. The crash, though, may have nothing to do with the automated tune, unless it keeps doing something in the background, because it crashes without playing that particular sound.

There must be something very wrong with MULab, and you say you can set lag to 0.25 ms
but that's not possible by the GUI, it's 0.0 or 0.5, you see 0.25 on the knob? So far I haven't had any crash in Live, energyXT, Tracktion Windows, and not even with Mac hosts.

One Synth Challenge #86: Sinnah by NUSofting (Penguinfromdeep wins!)