Tracktion 7.1 - go get it

[Robert Randolph]

I can't believe that there's actually people that think not having a manual is acceptable, or even good.

Documentation is probably one of the most important things for software. The poor documentation and poor centralization of resources is one of Tracktion's biggest flaws (besides the website).

Hopefully complaining will help them realize that their decisions are limiting their userbase.

[tovokas]

No one is saying that manuals aren't important, only that different users like to learn in different ways. The Tracktion team in small, and creating and maintaining a point by point manual is a time-consuming endeavor that would either slow down development, or increase the costs of the software because of the extra hands required. While many users love manuals, others never use them, relying instead on videos and forums. Requiring them to pay for a manual they will never use doesn't make any sense for these users. (And I wouldn't be surprised if there are fewer folks outraged by the lack of a manual than those who would get worked up being forced to pay for one!)

Happily, for those needing one there is an excellent and evolving manual available at reasonable cost. If enough users support Bill, the result will almost certainly be an in-depth manual that is updated frequently to cover new features with exactly the sort of information manual-lovers are looking for.

The only aspect of the complaints I find persuasive is the lack of integration between T7 and Bill's manual. Hopefully in the future as T7 (and the manual) matures this will be addressed.

[chico.co.uk]

I can't believe that there's actually people that think not having a manual is acceptable, or even good.

Nobody said that.
There is a manual.
Get it if you want it.
If you don't, don't.

[chico.co.uk]

I can't believe that there's actually people that think not having a manual is acceptable, or even good.

Nobody said that.
There is a manual.
Get it if you want it.
If you don't, don't.

What you're really saying is "I can't believe people don't agree with me!"
Well, some don't. Get over it.

[Robert Randolph]

I can't believe that there's actually people that think not having a manual is acceptable, or even good.

Nobody said that.
There is a manual.
Get it if you want it.
If you don't, don't.

There isn't an up-to-date manual. There is an unfinished and not up-to-date book by a third party. There is a manual that is incomplete for a version that is 3 major updates old.

If we want to agree to say that the third-party option is supposed to be the manual, then the complaint becomes that it's unfinished and out of date currently. It's also not linked to in the software at all.

[chico.co.uk]

I can't believe that there's actually people that think not having a manual is acceptable, or even good.

Nobody said that.
There is a manual.
Get it if you want it.
If you don't, don't.

There isn't an up-to-date manual. There is an unfinished and not up-to-date book by a third party. There is a manual that is incomplete for a version that is 3 major updates old.

If we want to agree to say that the third-party option is supposed to be the manual, then the complaint becomes that it's unfinished and out of date currently. It's also not linked to in the software at all.

We've done this conversation already. You want people to say you're right. Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, anybody else who wants a manual can get a manual, and the world keeps turning.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Hmmm... I don't recall getting a good, complete Windows manual recently. Would you mind complaining to Microsoft for me ?

[Robert Randolph]

Hmmm... I don't recall getting a good, complete Windows manual recently. Would you mind complaining to Microsoft for me ?

Windows has a thorough and up to date help and support system built in to the OS.

Thank you for the excellent example!

[Robert Randolph]

I can't believe that there's actually people that think not having a manual is acceptable, or even good.

Nobody said that.
There is a manual.
Get it if you want it.
If you don't, don't.

There isn't an up-to-date manual. There is an unfinished and not up-to-date book by a third party. There is a manual that is incomplete for a version that is 3 major updates old.

If we want to agree to say that the third-party option is supposed to be the manual, then the complaint becomes that it's unfinished and out of date currently. It's also not linked to in the software at all.

We've done this conversation already. You want people to say you're right. Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, anybody else who wants a manual can get a manual, and the world keeps turning.

Incomplete, not up-to-date, third-party "manual" that isn't referred to in the software.

If you're ok with that being a 'manual', then I guess there's no discussion to be had. I think that's unacceptable.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Microsoft's built-in help system, to me, has always just touched the surface. For instance, if I want information on NetSH, I can normally only find it by searching alternative sites and forums. Or details on netstat. Or... many other questions. Up-to-date - maybe. Complete - far from it.

[Robert Randolph]

Microsoft's built-in help system, to me, has always just touched the surface. For instance, if I want information on NetSH, I can normally only find it by searching alternative sites and forums. Or details on netstat. Or... many other questions. Up-to-date - maybe. Complete - far from it.

Odd, I just checked my windows machine and it has a full page on netstat with all the arguments documented, with examples.

Even then, there's the entire technet website that MS runs that has full documentation on such things. And when you can't find something in the help, it links you to the MS website where you can find more documentation, support or discussion.

Tracktion at best links you to a (very poorly designed) website where you can buy information from an incomplete listing of topics, or purchase an incomplete book from a third-party.

[gesslr]

Is your beef that the current situation is more inconvenient than having everything in one place, or that there are things that are not documented?

The manuals for the prior version are still applicable and Bill's books and videos are fantastic. The tool tips are useful too. What is it that you can't find within 3 minutes using these resources? No, these do not constitute a "manual", but it gets a person 100% of what they need 95% of the time quickly.

Perhaps an updated built in help system will come in time. Maybe they can add Bill's book as part of some bundles.

Seems like a lot of energy on the subject.

[Robert Randolph]

Is your beef that the current situation is more inconvenient than having everything in one place, or that there are things that are not documented?

The issue is 3 fold. There's no official manual referenced in the software, the only official manual is very old and the only other option is a purchase of a currently incomplete book.

It's also worth mentioning that the website has video tutorials... more than half of which are for sale.

The entire situation is very frustrating for someone trying to just get some documentation. Something you can do easily (and free!) for nearly every other DAW out there. Including the cheap ones.

[chico.co.uk]

The problem is threefold, yes;

a) You don't want to go to the manufacturer's website to get a manual, it MUST BE linked to from the software
b) You're obsessed with the idea that the available manual is incomplete
c) You think everybody should agree with you, when they don't

You can work around this by;

a) Going to the manufacturer's website to get the manual
b) Getting over it
c) Getting over it

Or you can keep going on and on about it, instead of spending the time reading the manual, that, once again, exists.

[Robert Randolph]

The problem is threefold, yes;

a) You don't want to go to the manufacturer's website to get a manual, it MUST BE linked to from the software

That is how every other software does it, yes. So that would be the expected behaviour.

b) You're obsessed with the idea that the available manual is incomplete

So you think the v4 manual is complete in the context of version 7 (or 5 or 6)?

Certainly you don't think the Edstrom book is complete...

c) You think everybody should agree with you, when they don't

I'm not even giving an opinion. These things are facts: there is no manual linked in the software, the only official manual is 3 versions old, the available 3rd party material is incomplete and costs money.

If you disagree with these things, I don't know what to say. This is the reality of the situation.

Perhaps you disagree with the idea that there should be a complete manual that's easily and freely available? (Like pretty much every other DAW). Maybe not. What is it exactly that you disagree with me about?

Or you can keep going on and on about it, instead of spending the time reading the manual, that, once again, exists.

I've done that. That's why I know it's incomplete!