Single cycle waveforms

[Taifunk]

I was afraid of that! But Once I've done the easy stuff I may try the other harder waves to see if they can be approximated in MuSynth. Actually, MuSynth doesn't have an MFO does it? So it'll have to be a Mux? I was hoping to keep all these within the MuSynth presets for simplicity when browsing the patches and a uniform front panel etc. Oh well... see how I get on, even if I can only do half of them it's still another 400 odd presets for MuSynth!

if you're talking about complex waves, there is no problem you can safely use musynth whitout the mfo.
for multi-cycles do you mean exactly?

[sl23]

Yeah I meant multiple cycled single sampled waves. But if they're too long they become squeals instead of sounds!

[Taifunk]

you have to dramatically lower the pitch to work with complex waves,you can share a sample?
For the mfo do not worry I have a very simple patch to share.
Edit: controlled now, do some changes and tomorrow I share it if can be helpful.
about the complex waves, I try to give examples with musynth to give you an idea for how to use them.

[sl23]

Sorry Taifunk, I'm not fully understanding you. Do you want me to give you some sample as examples? Some sample samples if you like!

[Taifunk]

Sorry Taifunk, I'm not fully understanding you. Do you want me to give you some sample as examples? Some sample samples if you like!

I messed up a little too much with words, forgive my English
try this example
the waveform is the same in both the oscillator,but in the oscillator 1 has 16 cycles,note that they sound the same.

[sl23]

I see how that works, you reduced the octave by 4 in Osc1. Maybe I'll try that tomorrow with a complex wave I'm having issues with. It's getting late so I'm going to catch some zeds. I'll post my efforts tomorrow with the full and edited example waves.
Thank you for your help.

[Taifunk]

you're welcome

[sl23]

Ok here's an example...

You have the original waveform, around 10 seconds long, plus a short and long edited wave.
If you load the short wave into MuSynth's Osc1 and disable every other section, you can hear there's no relation between this short wave and the original. If you load the long wave, it plays at a very high pitch. Reducing the octave still doesn't change the sound of the sample to match the original.

Is it possible to emulate patches like this at all? I know I could just load these samples into MuSampla, but you get a better sound when used at higher or lower octaves than the original when using single cycles. As a bonus you save space too. I'd love to be able to sample all my hardware patches and waves in this way so I'd like to know if this is possible.

Thanks

[Taifunk]

if you do not want to use the sampler and if you're talking about evolving complex waves like the example you posted the only way to do this is to use wavetable synthesis.
cut the samples in different single cycle and create a wavetable using "multi cycles"this is the correct way to use multi cycles,but this kind of work with this type of sample may not lead to the desired result.
In fact, yesterday I could not understand what you mean whith the term multi cicles.
normal oscillators may not work well with 10 seconds sample ,and in any case the original sample is very important.
This is a processed sound ,it is impossible to reproduce the original patch only using the normal oscillator or the mfo.
to do this whith the oscillator you have to start from a raw sample,without any kind of processing(filter,fx..)
and after use effects, filters ..in mux to make the patch as the original.
Otherwise, the best way is to use the sampler and multisampling.

Edit:try these two patches are two simple bad examples but they can give you an idea of what you can do with the sample loaded in the oscillator

[pljones]

Yes, a ten second sample is not a single cycle waveform, it's a ten second sample. You play it using a sampler, which will repitch it properly.

50Hz sine wave at 96K sample rate needs 96000/50 samples = 1920 samples - likely the maximum number of samples you'd ever have
12KHz sine wave at 96K sample rate needs 96000/12000 samples = 8 samples - likely the minimum number of samples you'd ever have

If you're going over 1920 samples in your "single cycle" you need to start thinking about slicing it for wavetable resynthesis. Or just use a sampler...

[Taifunk]

exactly, thanks plijones for the perfect explanation

[sl23]

I do understand that a ten second sample isn't a single cycle, that's why I'm asking if it could be reduced somehow to be used in MuSynth's oscillator.

I didn't think waves like that could be reduced, but I needed a professional opinion.

Thanks for your explanation pljones, and Taifunk for your help. I'll check that test out soon as I can.

Any tips on the MFO please?

[Taifunk]

you're welcome
I'm not a professionist and you're not wrong nothing,In fact, I just wanted to understand what kind of sound you want to get,why I asked for a sample
understand only with words it is difficult for me, Now I can help.
I attach a patch with mfo if you need it
there are two MFO, a normal oscillator,a noise generator and a sampler (not a multisample)
The patch is very simple and you can change what you want according to your taste
In this specific case to achieve a quick result the best option is to use a sampler
but suggest you to explore deeply also the wavetable synthesis(also the other types of synthesis).
not to be afraid when you hear that the wavetable synthesis is very difficult it's not true
for example, for me it is more difficult to write this post.
it only takes a bit of work but the mfo in mux truly offer an easy way to get good results without going crazy!
Certainly can not use the mfo like a sampler (like the bad example I posted,that's just a test)
to obtain a sound equal to the source,there is an anti-aliasing filter in the mfo and the sample will never sound like the original,but nobody forbids .
I know it can be difficult to learn the different types of synthesis but at the same time is fun and you can realize that sometimes it takes nothing more than oscillator, a filter, and something else to make a perfect copy of any patch you want
Try to experiment a bit with the mfo,I can not do a full explanation, it is a little difficult in English for me,however if you have any specific question, I am here

[sl23]

Wow thanks for that Taifunk, can't wait to check that out, but I'll have to wait til tomorrow now.

I'm sure your English is better than my translation of, er, whatever language you speak!

[Taifunk]

Ok,Thanks