Delay Compensation

[ceasless]

Very interesting drakmaniso.

It seems to me that the answer there could be to have options. If you press clip launch within the the pre-schedule window, one option is to play it late. The other is to wait one more Q.Launch period. And then of course turning pre-schedule off entirely.

[InsidePeople]

Since I have found that being able to shift track timing is critically important to my music, I have come up with a work-around in Bitwig:

- Identify the tracks you want shifted in time
- Take the remainder (non-shifted) tracks and set their output to a dedicated mix bus channel
- Take the mix bus channel and add a Delay effect, set to 100% wet, with about 50ms or so of delay
- Now go back to the tracks that need shifting and add a Delay effect to them too
- Tweak the time shifted tracks between 0 - 50ms, depending on where you want them in time

This is a brute force method. Of course, this is all pretty cumbersome (sure as hell beats sliding arranger events around tho) and should only really be done towards the end of the mixing process because of the latency it adds.

I used this technique on my track Cave Mouth

It is very timing sensitive. A cool side effect is that you can screw with global delay for tape stretch-like effects (like around 3:52).

I'm super bummed that it's summer 2016 and there hasn't been any resolution to this problem. It's seriously the most important thing for my process. I'm working on a track right now that uses a lot of shakers with slow attack, and it's so frustrating that I'm considering just migrating the project to Ableton. Please don't make me do that.

[Cyclomatic]

Since I have found that being able to shift track timing is critically important to my music

Could you elaborate on this? How do you use it? I'm struggling to think of how this could be useful if you're not just dealing with some quirky/buggy plugin or hardware issue or something.

[Coockie1176ln]

Since I have found that being able to shift track timing is critically important to my music

Could you elaborate on this? How do you use it? I'm struggling to think of how this could be useful if you're not just dealing with some quirky/buggy plugin or hardware issue or something.

I use trackdelay in studio one and it really saves worktime for me. I use it to make a section play earlier or later for varias parts. It can really help seperate layared drums so each attack dont happen same time. This could be done manual but track delay is so much more efficient

[Cyclomatic]

Since I have found that being able to shift track timing is critically important to my music

Could you elaborate on this? How do you use it? I'm struggling to think of how this could be useful if you're not just dealing with some quirky/buggy plugin or hardware issue or something.

I use trackdelay in studio one and it really saves worktime for me. I use it to make a section play earlier or later for varias parts. It can really help seperate layared drums so each attack dont happen same time. This could be done manual but track delay is so much more efficient

In Bitwig, isn't this as simple as just selecting the clip and pressing the right arrow key?

[Coockie1176ln]

Since I have found that being able to shift track timing is critically important to my music

Could you elaborate on this? How do you use it? I'm struggling to think of how this could be useful if you're not just dealing with some quirky/buggy plugin or hardware issue or something.

I use trackdelay in studio one and it really saves worktime for me. I use it to make a section play earlier or later for varias parts. It can really help seperate layared drums so each attack dont happen same time. This could be done manual but track delay is so much more efficient

In Bitwig, isn't this as simple as just selecting the clip and pressing the right arrow key?

its much simpler just delaying a track or using negative value over a whole track then do it on all selected tracks. And if you want to delay something with negative value that plays from start you have to move entire arranger a beat forward to give space for it. its really simple with track delay and i understand you have no need or want for it. but we all have different needs for workflow.

[InsidePeople]

Could you elaborate on this? How do you use it? I'm struggling to think of how this could be useful if you're not just dealing with some quirky/buggy plugin or hardware issue or something.

There is a different between a sequencer event and it's musical value. Instruments with a slow attack (like strings) actually anticipate the beat a little bit. Because it takes milliseconds to ramp up into full expression. Likewise, a lot of a drum patterns groove lies in pushing and pulling on the beat a little bit.

As for my use, I work with a lot of triggers that create macro effects. In Cave Mouth, you can hear this in the chopped slide guitar, and in a ducked attack kinda thing that the bass does. Both are a little ahead of the beat. Likewise if you listen to the cymbals, they are a little late. All of these elements are composed on the grid. When I am editing a pattern in Bitwig, I am using quantization while I am working creatively. If I wanted to shift the note events during this phase, it would screw up the whole workflow.

Also, there's something to be said for tweaking track time offset down to the ms when you're doing a final mix. It is often useful to shift things around to alter phase effects and groove timing. Again, this has nothing to do with sliding notes off the grid.

[InsidePeople]

Whelp, Bitwig 2 is here and it's got some great stuff, but of course it's got pet features that are missing. After all this time, my #1 pet feature is still Track Delay.

My new theory is that Bitwig devs failed to accommodate for negative delay offsets when they were designing the audio engine. If that's true, it would make adding it a later a very daunting and risky refactor. It would also explain the lame rationalizations and official suggested workarounds.

I was an early adopter and supporter and I still love Bitwig, but until it has basic professional tooling like Track Delay, it's going to remain a toy.

[beliefsystemrecords]

im also not going to upgrade till there is track delay. im quite happy with logic & ableton for the time being.