Announcement for programmers...

[jules]

Dude, if I can get some Delphi wrappers started would you be up for a collab on a sample editor using JUCE?

Whoah! yuppers! you could count me in on that one! I'm very very very close to completing a racked based sample mangler.. so this falls right in that line of thought. WHHoOOoOooT!

guys, I'm really intrigued by how you think that wrapping several hundred extremely object-oriented c++ classes in pascal would be (a) remotely possible, and (b) somehow easier or better than just using c++ ??

[Karbon L. Forms]

Nutters

[ModuLR]

guys, I'm really intrigued by how you think that wrapping several hundred extremely object-oriented c++ classes in pascal would be (a) remotely possible, and (b) somehow easier or better than just using c++ ??

(a) I have blind faith in valley's abilities... I blindly follow like a lemming with hopes that there isn't a cliff ahead... and if there is, I'll bust out with a nice swan dive (although I am a lemming). splash!

(b) I still haven't given up on c++. I've looked thru JUCE, and it's pretty damn nice.. although there are parts I still don't quite get. However, that being said... there just ain't nothing like slapping components on the screen to create an interface. how painful is that process in C++? I always hear people complaining about it.. so enlighten me a bit... can I just drag components where I want? or do I have to place them via code? (excuse the ignorance, cos it's been a long time since I've touched any c stuff)

[Karbon L. Forms]

someone could always use Delphi to write a JUCE GUI Builder?

Once the wrappers done!

[jules]

Don't get confused between languages and tools, ModulR - there are loads of 'slap-it-on-the-screen' GUI builders for c++ too.

I've not done one for JUCE because I've never needed one - all my stuff is so customised that a GUI builder would just get in the way. (I think I should probably add this to the JUCE FAQ because I bet the question will come up many more times..)

Maybe one day I'll do a GUI builder, though whenever I've thought about it, I can never decide how best to do it - whether to create data structures describing how to lay out the components, or whether the GUI builder should just pop out some c++ code that does the job. Too busy right now anyway.

(a) I have blind faith in valley's abilities... I blindly follow like a lemming with hopes that there isn't a cliff ahead... and if there is, I'll bust out with a nice swan dive (although I am a lemming). splash!

I recommend you put on a lifejacket before following valley in this case..

[lalo]

there are loads of 'slap-it-on-the-screen' GUI builders for c++ too.

Hi!
Can you (jules and you all guys) some of them?
thanx
lalo

[NiallM]

You know, I think you could probably use my VSTGUI Builder to make a JUCE gui. Theoretically all you'd need to do is edit the DefaultControls.xml file, and change the code and controls to what's needed for JUCE.

One of my aims in making it was to make it flexible enough that it would be possible to use it for gui toolkits other than VSTGUI. I haven't actually tried it though...

- Niall.

[valley]

guys, I'm really intrigued by how you think that wrapping several hundred extremely object-oriented c++ classes in pascal would be (a) remotely possible, and (b) somehow easier or better than just using c++ ??

I'll tell you when I've looked at your code.

FWIW the wrapping ia entirely possible. Borland did exactly that with Qt for Kylix and D6/7.

Whether it is worth the effort is another matter entirely, but I'll find that out when I come to look at it.

The make or break will be whether the tools I wrote for creating wrappers automatically[1] will work on your code well enough to take the grunt work out of it. So far I've only ever used them for C header translations which is easy.

As for using C++, if I *have* to I will do, but I can produce three times as much code in OP than I can in C++ hour for hour, and I tend to make less mistakes too. That's why I use OP.

[1] I needed access to MIR's DICOM processing suite in addition to a quick port of SQLite[2]

[2] great little database that in case anyone cares.

[Paul_FX]

Hi guys,

Jules :
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou! Finally a decent C++ library that makes sense!

Now a question, leaving aside the legalities, has anyone yet found a way of making this work with a VST? Cos if not the legal issue is of no concequence.
If someone has, any chance of being able to see a snippet of source (or an example project)..

Paul

[valley]

*eek*

Well Jules, after some further testing and trying, my autowrap really isn't liking JUCE.

It's a scaling problem. To get it working in a hurry I took a few shortcuts (yeah, I know). It handles smallish conversions with minimal human intervention. JUCE is a few shades of too damn large though.

The hack I used to accumulate and parse includes is failing to cope with both the depth (fixable) and span (much less fixable) of the include hierarchies on some .h files.

Prolly going to be a lot of work to fix my code, and I'm never likely to have to flatten something this big again, so I don't have a lot of momentum to

[jules]

You should learn c++ then! Surely c++ and pascal are about the same difficulty level?

[Crossinger]

You should learn c++ then! Surely c++ and pascal are about the same difficulty level?

Maybe - but Pascal is much sexier, for sure!

J.

[Karbon L. Forms]

Strikes me there must be good reasons why C++ is hugely popular and even Borland is letting pascal die. Not sure what they are though. I like C++ despite the fact that it regularly f**ks with my head. (The bird does that too and I like her).
Pascal was devised as a teaching language I believe - a position now taken by Java - seems most Unis are teaching Java right the way through. Mine did.
Nothing at all wrong with the Delphi compiler. Lightening quick.
It's all those "begin" and "end"s I hate. And the pre-declarations nippy when all you want is a counter for a for loop. But worst of all

COMpletE lAck oF cASe seNsiTiviTy.

[valley]

You should learn c++ then! Surely c++ and pascal are about the same difficulty level?

I know C++ well enough. I just never liked it much as a language.

To be fair some of my biggest problems with C++ aren't really C++ but C, but it all rolls into one in my head.

Most of the reasons KLF gives for not liking Pascal are exactly the reasons I do like it. Case insensitivity, pre defined variables and functions. I find pascal's records to be much more elegant than C's struct. Although Pascal does not support multiple inheritence, it does have Java style interfaces, which I prefer as they typically produce better code in the long run.

I like having strings that really are. I like having property fields (also available in C++Builder but nor really C++) in objects rather than get/set function pairs.

I like instant compile times. I think that '.' is a much nicer object pointer notation than '->' as it is far more readable at a glance.

Pascal *is* dying, but not because the language sucks, rather it is because Borland are dying and people see pascal now as being irrevocably tied to Borland. Right there is the primary reason I may jump ship this year, but if I do, it'll likely be to Java as cross platform is essential for the stuff I develop at work.

[Karbon L. Forms]

Isnt Delphis string just a built in library type? As opposed to a language construct. We might find that JUCE::String pisses all over the Delphi one from up high and round a corner. Every string boils down to a char[] at the end of the day anyway. Or maybe a linked list which is pointer based. With C++ you choose your own level. You can use an all singing Java style library like juce or you take the middle road with STL or go straight to the metal with unchecked arrays and char*s etc.
I've gone Delphi->Java->C++ so C++ is just my new toy. I'm into cross-platform but can't really be arsed with VMs.
I did like Delphi. If I wanted a quick Win32 prog done I'd use it rather than VB which sucks loud. That's shite actually! It's so long since I've done pascal that I'd prolly use C++Builder.