Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[recursive one]

FWIW the FM in Icarus uses real FM as it uses a suimilar approach than Nemesis with it's NeoFM modes.

This is the aspect which is very interesting to me, yesterday I got distracted from it by making these hypersaws, but it's a field to explore.

If it's no bother, could you name a few factory presets which use the FM mode, in order I could look how it works? TBH, 15 minutes demo limitation makes it a bit hard to properly explore such a complex synth, so it's better to start with a preset.

[Ingonator]

FWIW the FM in Icarus uses real FM as it uses a suimilar approach than Nemesis with it's NeoFM modes.

This is the aspect which is very interesting to me, yesterday I got distracted from it by making these hypersaws, but it's a field to explore.

If it's no bother, could you name a few factory presets which use the FM mode, in order I could look how it works? TBH, 15 minutes demo limitation makes it a bit hard to properly explore such a complex synth, so it's better to start with a preset.

Examples are e.g. "FM 2x" and "FM 3x" in the "Bell" category and "FM Brooklyn" + "FM Hollow" in the Keys category.

With some patches it is maybe not so obvious as like i alraedy tried to explain the current setting of the Morph mode (including the FM) could be rendered to a new wavetable. This is then "static" oppsosing to having modulation of the Fm amount like in the patches mentioned above. Anyway you could add another FM morph mode to teh alraedy rendered new wavetable.

PS:
FWIW as many sound desgners participated with the factory presets this time only a part of the patches i had delivered are included (i am sure that some people would like other presets that are not included more...). Anyway also based on the remaining/unpublished presets i started workin on my own soundset for it that should include 200 presets when done. My factory presets are those with "IW" at the end of the name.

[recursive one]

Examples are e.g. "FM 2x" and "FM 3x" in the "Bell" category and "FM Brooklyn" + "FM Hollow" in the Keys category.

With some patches it is maybe not so obvious as like i alraedy tried to explain the current setting of the Morph mode (including the FM) could be rendered to a new wavetable. This is then "static" oppsosing to having modulation of the Fm amount like in the patches mentioned above. Anyway you could add another FM morph mode to teh alraedy rendered new wavetable.

Thanks a ton, Ingo!

[kokotte]

i just buy it, really great synth, icarus and serum complement each other perfectly!
one thing: serum can, since a long time, render warp and his output, /with wt, warp, fx, modulation/ to Wt.
if you like wt and serum, icarus have his place, it' a different monster.

[recursive one]

if you like wt and serum, icarus have his place, it' a different monster.

I like wt, but don't like Serum. So far I like the sound of Icarus much more.

All in all, Icarus sounds a bit static/ lacking some tiny yet important details compared to Spire or Virus, but it is cabable of things none of these two can do (and I guess, these tiny details may actually be lost in a mix anyway). It seems, it can do some things I find ineteresting in Serum, but sounds more pleasant IMO.

Maybe I'll eventually buy it.

[exmatproton]

The "3D wavetable" is meant if you use wavetable scanning (mmodulation of the "Wave" knob/parameter) and modulation of the "Morph" knob/parameter at the same time.

So it's 2D then

(not such an important detail, but when someone says he invented something "unique", there should always be room for some debate. But how are we supposed to discuss such things when the developer refuses to communicate on his communication platforms? Nevermind. I'll check Icarus out when it's ready. I liked Rayblaster - is that its name? - a lot and some inspiration towards wavetable synthesis is always welcome)

I really don't see the "3d" either......i can find 2 particular ways to edit a waveforms shape and fm it. I wonder what they mean by "3d"....

Rayblaster is nice indeed. Use it a lot.

Actually it seems to be quite simple IMO:
A single waveform is the first dimension, the wavetable scanning ("Wave" knob modulation) the second dimension and the modulation of the Morph knob (for the current Osc Morph mode) the third one.
Of course you could have a differnt opinion on this but IMO this is indeed something that could be called "3D".

FM and Sync is also known with other wavetable synths but Icarus has tons of different morph modes besides that.

No need to call it 3d then, hehehehe....nevertheless, it is a great synth, although i have difficulties (as with all tone2 synths) to get the sound "flat". The punch can't be turned off completely, which is a shame.

But yeah, great tool. Won't buy it though...

[Cinebient]

We already have 5D synths
3D was yesterday.

[zerocrossing]

We already have 5D synths
3D was yesterday.

So true. Can we get by Tone2's hyperbolic marketing? It's not like they're not known for it.

That said, I had the thought when they said 3d wavetables that you could literally load up 3 different wavetables and the synth would calculate a "third" dimension between them. Not sure how that tech would work, or if it would even make meaningful sounds, but in my head it was cool... I guess in a simple way it could be like wavetable synthesis plus Prophet VS style vector synthesis.

I'm not feeling that Icarus is a $199 buy... ever. I guess if they do another 2 for one sale I could be persuaded...but I do kind of feel I'm full up on Tone2 creations. The only one I kind of feel like I might want (I have Gladiator 2, Electra 2 and Nemesis) is Rayblaster, and I was not moved by the demo. I thought Saurus was a lot of nothing special. So... to me this feels like a $129 synth with a $99 pre order price. In contrast, Factory, at $139 kind of makes me want it right now.

[chk071]

Will they charge $199 for it? I read 149 €, no idea how that translates to $. It offers quite a lot IMO anyway. I do agree though, that Saurus is a bit slim regarding features and everything. I think they should rather sell it for, like, 79 €. It's a bit obsolete now anyway, because some of Icarus' filters do remind me a lot of the ones in Saurus, and it features many more on top of that.

[db3]

You pay whatever the price is set to for the currency selected. e.g. $199 or €149. One currency might therefore work out better than another, as it's not a direct currency conversion. That price includes tax, so not sure if it shows as cheaper based on where you are.

Icarus feels like an amalgamation of best bits of other T2 products. I'm really enjoying it so far. It's going to a great tool box as there's so much you can do. I don't feel like I need another T2 product though, so selling Nemesis.

[chk071]

I wished they had a crossgrade option for owners of their other products. This way, i think i rather wait on a sale or something. I really like the wavetable section btw. Just a shame that the demo stops, when you just started to fiddle with it.

[fluffy_little_something]

You pay whatever the price is set to for the currency selected. e.g. $199 or €149. One currency might therefore work out better than another, as it's not a direct currency conversion. That price includes tax, so not sure if it shows as cheaper based on where you are.

Icarus feels like an amalgamation of best bits of other T2 products. I'm really enjoying it so far. It's going to a great tool box as there's so much you can do. I don't feel like I need another T2 product though, so selling Nemesis.

I suppose the price is automatically selected for the geographic region or country so that European customers effectively don't pay more than Americans, despite VAT. A nice policy that should be standard in the software industry

[woodsdenis]

You pay whatever the price is set to for the currency selected. e.g. $199 or €149. One currency might therefore work out better than another, as it's not a direct currency conversion. That price includes tax, so not sure if it shows as cheaper based on where you are.

Icarus feels like an amalgamation of best bits of other T2 products. I'm really enjoying it so far. It's going to a great tool box as there's so much you can do. I don't feel like I need another T2 product though, so selling Nemesis.

I suppose the price is automatically selected for the geographic region or country so that European customers effectively don't pay more than Americans, despite VAT. A nice policy that should be standard in the software industry

Except that US buyers or anyone outside of the EU are paying a VAT included price which they shouldn't be. Er 149 euros is 167 dollars today, where does the 199 dollars come from ?

[fluffy_little_something]

Except that US buyers or anyone outside of the EU are paying a VAT included price which they shouldn't be.

Well, I think it is only fair that customers everywhere pay more or less the same price regardless where they live and whether or not they have to pay VAT. I don't Americans pay VAT on T2 products, their price is simply set higher to begin with in order to compensate...
I assume T2 are legally free to charge any price they want to in any country. If they wanted they could charge only 10 dollars for Indians

But VAT is weird to begin with, a kind of legalized theft by the government, it should be abolished altogether.

[MorpherX]

In my view the resynthesis feature is the most important .

The results regarding this with Icarus are very bad:
1. In resulting wavetables there are always noises and crackles
2. In high and low notes from played back resynthesized wavetables are strong artefacts like Mickey Mouse.
3. The maximum lenght of a resythesized sound is 1 second, this is a choke.

In Serum all this three points are much much better. The resynthesis feature is not as easy to use as in Icarus but the results are miles better with a maximum leghts of 8 second in a high quality without artefacts or alaising in high or low notes. The leng on low resynthesis quality can be 16 seconds.
Beside this the pure sound of Icarus without any effects and modulations is a agressiv high midrange sound. Serum sounds more natural and more smooth.

Third the workflow and GUI of this Icarus an Horror, you always have to tab around like a crazy chicken and to open endless menus.

Conclusion:
Icarus is a bad wavetables synth, I will never buy it.
I would recommand of course Serum and who don't like it wait for Zebra 3 or test the Waldorf or Palm wavetable synth. But the last uses dongles/CR.
I am really very dissapointed with this Icarus.
I assume that Zebra 3 will become the master of all wavetable synths if it will ever be released.