Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[johnrule]

The way i understand it, you have the classic wavetable, which you choose in the bottom middle of the waveform display, in which you morph from waveform to waveform by moving, or modulating the "Wave" control, and additionally, you can transform the actual waveform with different "waveshaping" modes, choosable on the bottom right of the waveform display, by moving, or modulating the "Morph" control. The "Morph" thing is unusual, and i would have expected a few more wavetables, but, the way i see it, it's pretty flexible like this.

So, morphing waves sequentially through a timeline (i.e. "moving, or modulating")? That's what it looks like (and sounds like) anyway. I still don't get the architecture though. Is it 30 oscillators per note/voice (I read "3 osc x 10" somewhere)?

Look, i didn't use "3D wavetable" at all. Not even sure what it's supposed to mean, to be totally honest. The only "3D" I see is in the display.

Thanks for doing that, and that was my point too actually

[wagtunes]

I don't get the hate either... Exchange rate and VAT can't really be helped.

Exchange rate, no they don't have control over that. But charging VAT for people outside EU, like people in US or Canada? What do you say about that?

I really wonder how that is supposed to work when you have to conduct the VAT in the buyer's country, as a company. Puzzled here.

Know what? I wouldn't even care if I have to pay VAT. In Europe, it still comes out to about $160 in US currency.

Why am I paying $199?

[aMUSEd]

Yep, pretty much the same thing then, just some options different, and more in Icarus.

Yeah the formant osc shaping mode isn't in Serum (although there is a formant filter) - on the other hand you can combine functions as macros which adds to what Serum can do, and it has additional morphing options in the osc wave editors. So all in all I'm still not clear where the 3D comes in either. Does Icarus have macro knobs?

[Ingonator]

The way i understand it, you have the classic wavetable, which you choose in the bottom middle of the waveform display, in which you morph from waveform to waveform by moving, or modulating the "Wave" control, and additionally, you can transform the actual waveform with different "waveshaping" modes, choosable on the bottom right of the waveform display, by moving, or modulating the "Morph" control. The "Morph" thing is unusual, and i would have expected a few more wavetables, but, the way i see it, it's pretty flexible like this.

Serum has an extra knob too - as well as the usual Wavetable position scanning knob it has Warp knob which can be setup to warp the wavefile using a wide variety of functions. Is that similar to what the Morph knob does?

The point is that Icarus has tons of such Morph modes while comparable ones in Massive and Serum (while Serum has a few more than Massive) seem to be more limited in that respect. The important thing about the FM modes in Icaruis is that they use the technlogy from Nemesis so they do real FM, not phase modulation. This also means that all kinds of wavefoms should work properly with FM which AAFFI is not always the case with phase modulation (you could test that in Nemesis when using the NeoFM and phase modulaton modes on complex waveforms with the same patch).

As Icarus in the FM modes uses additional fixed waveform oscillators as modulators (opposing to using another main oscillator for FM like e.g. in Serum) you are able to use differnt FM in al 3 main oscillators. In Serum it only seems to be possible to use FM on one of the 2 main Occs at once. Basically you could get 6 OP FM when using FM at all 3 OSCs (+ the 3 additional Modulator Oscs). Same is also rue about the Sync and phase distiortion modes that use aditional Oscs besides the main Oscs.
If you do not need modulation of the FM amount you coudl aslo render the current FM amount setting to a new wavetable (using "Apply Morph to wavetable" from the "Tool" menu). This besides saving some CPU cycles offers the opportunity to apply another Morph mode to the new wavetable.

[woodsdenis]

I don't get the hate either... Exchange rate and VAT can't really be helped.

Exchange rate, no they don't have control over that. But charging VAT for people outside EU, like people in US or Canada? What do you say about that?

I really wonder how that is supposed to work when you have to conduct the VAT in the buyer's country, as a company. Puzzled here.

There is no puzzle to it, VAT can only be charged on transactions between EU states, outside of that it is deemed an export and no VAT is charged. Apart from all of that, T2 have arbitrarily set the exchange rate at 149 euro = 199 dollars. This is way off its about 165 dollars ish. This figure of course is the VAT inclusive figure, it should cost US buyers 136 dollars !! That's a huge difference.

This isn't hate, its a fact that T2 ignore for their own financial benefit. Check Uhe as an example and see how they do it properly. Charge in one currency and add VAT for EU customers. Pretty simple.

As for Icarus I think it's quite good and can create some really interesting sounds.

[chk071]

I don't get the hate either... Exchange rate and VAT can't really be helped.

Exchange rate, no they don't have control over that. But charging VAT for people outside EU, like people in US or Canada? What do you say about that?

I really wonder how that is supposed to work when you have to conduct the VAT in the buyer's country, as a company. Puzzled here.

There is no puzzle to it, VAT can only be charged on transactions between EU states, outside of that it is deemed an export and no VAT is charged. Apart from all of that, T2 have arbitrarily set the exchange rate at 149 euro = 199 dollars. This is way off its about 165 dollars ish. This figure of course is the VAT inclusive figure, it should cost US buyers 136 dollars !! That's a huge difference.

This isn't hate, its a fact that T2 ignore for their own financial benefit. Check Uhe as an example and see how they do it properly. Charge in one currency and add VAT for EU customers. Pretty simple.

Yeah, well, maybe there's someone from the States here, who has already bought Icarus, or any other Tone2 synth, then we could see whether he really was charged VAT or not. Alternatively, of course, we can scream "SCANDAL!! THEY RIP US ALL OFF!!" also, without knowing anything at all.

[woodsdenis]

I don't get the hate either... Exchange rate and VAT can't really be helped.

Exchange rate, no they don't have control over that. But charging VAT for people outside EU, like people in US or Canada? What do you say about that?

I really wonder how that is supposed to work when you have to conduct the VAT in the buyer's country, as a company. Puzzled here.

There is no puzzle to it, VAT can only be charged on transactions between EU states, outside of that it is deemed an export and no VAT is charged. Apart from all of that, T2 have arbitrarily set the exchange rate at 149 euro = 199 dollars. This is way off its about 165 dollars ish. This figure of course is the VAT inclusive figure, it should cost US buyers 136 dollars !! That's a huge difference.

This isn't hate, its a fact that T2 ignore for their own financial benefit. Check Uhe as an example and see how they do it properly. Charge in one currency and add VAT for EU customers. Pretty simple.

Yeah, well, maybe there's someone from the States here, who has already bought Icarus, or any other Tone2 synth, then we could see whether he really was charged VAT or not. Alternatively, of course, we can scream "SCANDAL!! THEY RIP US ALL OFF!!" also, without knowing anything at all.

There are numerous posters already in this thread who have already said that, wether it says VAT on the invoice they are being charged the VAT inclusive price and then another 40 dollars. It really is very simple, US customers should be paying $ 136 instead they are paying $ 199. Can't make it any simpler than that. There is no grey area here .

[lnikj]

As a UK resident who has spent 30+ years buying computers and cameras at prices that bear no reasonable comparison to US prices even when VAT is included I can't help a wry smile when these discussions periodically crop up here

[chk071]

I don't get the hate either... Exchange rate and VAT can't really be helped.

Exchange rate, no they don't have control over that. But charging VAT for people outside EU, like people in US or Canada? What do you say about that?

I really wonder how that is supposed to work when you have to conduct the VAT in the buyer's country, as a company. Puzzled here.

There is no puzzle to it, VAT can only be charged on transactions between EU states, outside of that it is deemed an export and no VAT is charged. Apart from all of that, T2 have arbitrarily set the exchange rate at 149 euro = 199 dollars. This is way off its about 165 dollars ish. This figure of course is the VAT inclusive figure, it should cost US buyers 136 dollars !! That's a huge difference.

This isn't hate, its a fact that T2 ignore for their own financial benefit. Check Uhe as an example and see how they do it properly. Charge in one currency and add VAT for EU customers. Pretty simple.

Yeah, well, maybe there's someone from the States here, who has already bought Icarus, or any other Tone2 synth, then we could see whether he really was charged VAT or not. Alternatively, of course, we can scream "SCANDAL!! THEY RIP US ALL OFF!!" also, without knowing anything at all.

There are numerous posters already in this thread who have already said that, wether it says VAT on the invoice they are being charged the VAT inclusive price and then another 40 dollars. It really is very simple, US customers should be paying $ 136 instead they are paying $ 199. Can't make it any simpler than that. There is no grey area here .

And where is the VAT conducted? Makes no sense, dude.

[chk071]

As a UK resident who has spent 30+ years buying computers and cameras at prices that bear no reasonable comparison to US prices even when VAT is included I can't help a wry smile when these discussions periodically crop up here

Exactly. USA complaining on a high level here.

[db3]

I do wonder why the digital river ecommence platform can't apply VAT based on user location (not currency selection). I thought these solutions were designed to handle the complicated VAT calculations as per EU law to avoid the business having to do so.

[woodsdenis]

As a UK resident who has spent 30+ years buying computers and cameras at prices that bear no reasonable comparison to US prices even when VAT is included I can't help a wry smile when these discussions periodically crop up here

Exactly. USA complaining on a high level here.

Actually I am from Ireland, bad assumption there I pay euros and pay the VAT. Unfair practice is unfair no matter where you live.

If you really can't see the injustice in this by just looking at the T2 website then this conversation is finished.
You could also look up the EU regulations on VAT charging to help you understand, also online you will find very easy to use currency conversion tools to help you out.

[JoeCat]

...The important thing about the FM modes in Icaruis is that they use the technlogy from Nemesis...

That's why T2 just gotta do a semi-modular and put all this together

As Icarus in the FM modes uses additional fixed waveform oscillators as modulators

Is that how Nemesis works also? (I know I can look it all up but quicker to ask )

This is why a brother can't decide. Do I want the peanut butter ice cream with chocolate chunks, or the chocolate ice cream with peanut butter chunks...

[chk071]

As a UK resident who has spent 30+ years buying computers and cameras at prices that bear no reasonable comparison to US prices even when VAT is included I can't help a wry smile when these discussions periodically crop up here

Exactly. USA complaining on a high level here.

Actually I am from Ireland, bad assumption there I pay euros and pay the VAT. Unfair practice is unfair no matter where you live.

If you really can't see the injustice in this by just looking at the T2 website then this conversation is finished.
You could also look up the EU regulations on VAT charging to help you understand, also online you will find very easy to use currency conversion tools to help you out.

Wagtunes is from the US. You also jump to conclusions way too early. Why? You have no idea if VAT is even being processed on checkout. Also you have no idea who is responsible to conduct the VAT. If they use a payment system like ShareIt/Digital River, then i would think that it is responsible for charging VAT based on location, and for the billing. Just step back for a moment, instead of shouting SCANDAL, if you don't even know what exactly is happening here. And especially, if you're not even affected.

[pdxindy]

As a UK resident who has spent 30+ years buying computers and cameras at prices that bear no reasonable comparison to US prices even when VAT is included I can't help a wry smile when these discussions periodically crop up here

Exactly. USA complaining on a high level here.

Actually I am from Ireland, bad assumption there I pay euros and pay the VAT. Unfair practice is unfair no matter where you live.

If you really can't see the injustice in this by just looking at the T2 website then this conversation is finished.
You could also look up the EU regulations on VAT charging to help you understand, also online you will find very easy to use currency conversion tools to help you out.

Wagtunes is from the US. You also jump to conclusions way too early. Why? You have no idea if VAT is even being processed on checkout. Also you have no idea who is responsible to conduct the VAT. If they use a payment system like ShareIt/Digital River, then i would think that it is responsible for charging VAT based on location, and for the billing. Just step back for a moment, instead of shouting SCANDAL, if you don't even know what exactly is happening here. And especially, if you're not even affected.

So you are claiming that the $199 listed price will suddenly be reduced at purchase?