Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[Cinebient]

I'm a little confused about the length of samples I can load up into the wavetable. If a single cycle is 2048 samples in length, and I have 256 cycles, then that would be 524,288 samples, which is approximately ten seconds of audio.

But if I take a sample half that length and try to import it into the wavetable, I get a nag screen that says "You loaded a large sample. Do you want to trim it after 256 cycles (recommended)?"

(I shouldn't have to trim it. The sample I just loaded is much shorter than 256 cycles.)

If I say "no", roughly half of the wavetable slots are used up. If I say "yes", all 256 slots are used up. I'm guessing that, in this case, nothing has actually been trimmed (because it doesn't need to be trimmed), but instead the sample has been stretched to occupy all 256 slots?

Another problem I noticed in both scenarios is that the first waveform in the very first wavetable slot fades to a zero crossing at the end of its cycle and doesn't blend with the next waveform. The sample I loaded loops seamlessly when loaded up into a sampler, but because of this one waveform fading to a zero crossing in the first wavetable slot, I get a nasty click when using LFO1 to modulate the "Wave" parameter.

Is there a way to keep this zero crossing from happening? I know the sample I loaded is not too long, but it seems like it has been trimmed somehow. I'm trying to create wavetables that loop seamlessly and I'm having trouble doing that because of this. Any ideas?

-- Bryan Lake

Same here...the resynthesis sounds really good (better than Alchemy 2 with many sounds i tryed) but that damn click in loop mode is annoying. So it's just usable in envelope mode or i must modulate it so that it loops back before reaching the last waveform.
I have to try more if there is a workaround or a crossfade option i didn't find in the editor.
Edit: So the only way to avoid this click is to copy the first waveform in the last slot, then choose the last (you need to chose at least 3) ones and use the crossfade option (mix) in the editor. But it´s still not a smooth experience.
This is indeed the reason i did not hit the buy button yet. It really take the fun out of the (otherwise fantastic) resynthesis.
And one big wish is that the arp had an silent mode so that the modulation also works when the arp doesn´t trigger notes.

[Cinebient]

Anyone of the beta testers has an idea how to make easy smooth looping custom wavetables.
It's really bad as it is now. There really needs to be an option to crossfade the start and end of a wavetable.
Sadly i can't enter the Tone2 forum without owning a product. But i won't buy Icarus without beeing able to do easy a proper looped custom wavetable (which works good with most of the other wavetable synths).

[Sound Author]

Anyone of the beta testers has an idea how to make easy smooth looping custom wavetables.
It's really bad as it is now. There really needs to be an option to crossfade the start and end of a wavetable.
Sadly i can't enter the Tone2 forum without owning a product. But i won't buy Icarus without beeing able to do easy a proper looped custom wavetable (which works good with most of the other wavetable synths).

^^^ Yes, I think this and the ability to adjust oscillator pitch in semitones are the two most needed fixes right now. Some kind of auto crossfade algorithm we can activate in "Loop" mode or something.

[kokotte]

in wt synth, i often delete the first and last frame, the looping depend of the lfo shape too, a saw is not smooth, in icarus, the pingpong loop works great, like the tri:)

[Sound Author]

in wt synth, i often delete the first and last frame, the looping depend of the lfo shape too, a saw is not smooth, in icarus, the pingpong loop works great, like the tri:)

Yes, but a ping pong loop will change the characteristic of the sound by reversing it. The ping pong loop is very useful, but we need to be able to loop wavetables in a linear fashion. The samples I'm dropping into the wavetable have already been crossfaded in the sampling process. I just need Icarus to pay closer attention to the start and end points of the sample, or implement some sort of crossfade control. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the developer is already working on it.

[Cinebient]

in wt synth, i often delete the first and last frame, the looping depend of the lfo shape too, a saw is not smooth, in icarus, the pingpong loop works great, like the tri:)

Yes, but a ping pong loop will change the characteristic of the sound by reversing it. The ping pong loop is very useful, but we need to be able to loop wavetables in a linear fashion. The samples I'm dropping into the wavetable have already been crossfaded in the sampling process. I just need Icarus to pay closer attention to the start and end points of the sample, or implement some sort of crossfade control. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the developer is already working on it.

I agree...there a few workarounds possible but it's not very user friendly and it indeed can destroy the character of an imported sample.
The day it gets a proper crossfade (or morph) of start and end of a loop i hit the buy button.
I get great results with the envelope but i want more
It's also strange that if i use a polyphonic LFO i get clicks on some notes and on some not when looping it.
It's a beta, so it's O.K. but i hope this get sorted out.

[Sound Author]

in wt synth, i often delete the first and last frame, the looping depend of the lfo shape too, a saw is not smooth, in icarus, the pingpong loop works great, like the tri:)

Yes, but a ping pong loop will change the characteristic of the sound by reversing it. The ping pong loop is very useful, but we need to be able to loop wavetables in a linear fashion. The samples I'm dropping into the wavetable have already been crossfaded in the sampling process. I just need Icarus to pay closer attention to the start and end points of the sample, or implement some sort of crossfade control. But I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the developer is already working on it.

I agree...there a few workarounds possible but it's not very user friendly and it indeed can destroy the character of an imported sample.
The day it gets a proper crossfade (or morph) of start and end of a loop i hit the buy button.
I get great results with the envelope but i want more
It's also strange that if i use a polyphonic LFO i get clicks on some notes and on some not when looping it.
It's a beta, so it's O.K. but i hope this get sorted out.

It may sound like a simple fix to us, but I'm sure on the programming level it's no small task. I too really hope this is resolved before the official 1.0 goes live

[tasty tatsyn]

i'm not sure it has to do with waveform resyntesis, i was just trying that with a custom sample, i could hear clicks, then i init icarus again, imported the same sample and now it doesn't do it anymore!?

same happens with some presets i make mostly when i use arp... one of the things i've noticed is FX values go to -200 <-> + 200 or more when modulated sometimes, so some fixes are being needed. I haven't been able to pinpoint, it's this or that causing the clicks... sometimes it makes them, sometimes doesn't.

[Examigan]

i'm not sure it has to do with waveform resyntesis, i was just trying that with a custom sample, i could hear clicks, then i init icarus again, imported the same sample and now it doesn't do it anymore!?

same happens with some presets i make mostly when i use arp... one of the things i've noticed is FX values go to -200 <-> + 200 or more when modulated sometimes, so some fixes are being needed. I haven't been able to pinpoint, it's this or that causing the clicks... sometimes it makes them, sometimes doesn't.

Clicks are usually an older CPU or the buffer settings, maybe a few other things... but usually those

[tasty tatsyn]

could be but not the case, i7 and icarus only synth in project, asio4ll in max buffer size, tried with other drivers too

synths have their own quircks and icarus is still in beta

i have another sotfsynth wich i really like but!.. whenever i get it in a project it all gets out of sync in cubase, problably erronious delay compensation information, either on plugin or cubase, or something...

[Sound Author]

As I explained in my previous post: "The first waveform in the very first wavetable slot fades to a zero crossing at the end of its cycle and doesn't blend with the next waveform." The starting phase of the next waveform in the second wavetable slot has nothing to do with the previous waveform, which will create an audible click every single time without fail. As Cinebient explained, there are ways to correct this, but they are a workflow hindrance.

[quantum7]

Finally tried Icarus yesterday. FINALLY a Tone2 synth that I actually really like the sounds of....I write mostly New Age and Soundtrack, so Tone2's prior stuff never floated my boat. My only complaint would be that I wish I could scroll through the presets using the up/down arrows on my PC keypad. Many soft-synths allow this and I find it real handy when I don't want to use a mouse or MIDI program change when scrolling through presets. Great job Tone2.

[ATS]

Finally tried Icarus yesterday. FINALLY a Tone2 synth that I actually really like the sounds of....I write mostly New Age and Soundtrack, so Tone2's prior stuff never floated my boat. My only complaint would be that I wish I could scroll through the presets using the up/down arrows on my PC keypad. Many soft-synths allow this and I find it real handy when I don't want to use a mouse or MIDI program change when scrolling through presets. Great job Tone2.

it's sort of funny you say that because to me some of the other Tone2 synths can sound a lot like this one.

[tasty tatsyn]

As I explained in my previous post: "The first waveform in the very first wavetable slot fades to a zero crossing at the end of its cycle and doesn't blend with the next waveform." The starting phase of the next waveform in the second wavetable slot has nothing to do with the previous waveform, which will create an audible click every single time without fail. As Cinebient explained, there are ways to correct this, but they are a workflow hindrance.

right, i was talking about waveform resynthesis, not wavetable, my bad

btw just a side note, the diferent resynthesis modes offer very distinct results

need to test icarus some more

[Cinebient]

I did now a lot experiments with the resynthesis and i must say it's fantastic mostly.
I used different kind of sounds and compared it with Alchemy 2.
If i play it just in the original pitch Alchemy 2 does it a bit better mostly and comes closer to the original (and offers much more things for editing) but when playing it over all octaves Icarus gives me much better results and less artifacts, especially in the higher range.
This opens a giant world of sound design.
So i must say that the big marketing words about the resynthesis are true.
That alone might be worth (for me) to buy it....even if i need to do workarounds if i want to loop a resynthesized sound.