Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[Ingonator]

I Index, morphing etc just affect amplitude.

Wrong, they affect the timbre and/or harmonics which is most obvious if you have a wavetable with very different waveforms inside. Also modulation of e.g. the FM amount (with the FM Osc Morph modes) could result in bigger changes of the harmonics and/or the timbre.

If you pick a single point of a single waveform this is defined by an Amplitude and a time while this singöe popint is too short to actually produce a sound (actually theoretically, beyond technical implementations, such a single point does not exist in reality or is infinitly small). The whole waveform is what defines the timbre/harmonics. The wavetable index and/or Morph knob defines how this timbre changes over the time (and of course the filter and it's modulation).

As alraedy mentioned a time dimesnion is included with both the mod sources (envelopes. LFO) and the waveform itself (while all waveforms in the wavetable got the same length of 2048 samples).

[OneOfManyPauls]

Wrong, they affect the timbre and/or harmonics

The result of frequency changes brought about through amplitude - it's basic science.

Think of a speaker cone - it just moves in and out over time. 2 dimensions - time and amplitude.

[Ingonator]

Wrong, they affect the timbre and/or harmonics

The result of frequency changes brought about through amplitude - it's basic science.

Think of a speaker cone - it just moves in and out over time. 2 dimensions - time and amplitude.

The point is not how a speaker produces sound but how parameters like waveform, wave index and Morph parameter influence the sound while evolving over the time. This is a bit differnt than just talking about Amplitude or how a speaker works.

This kind of discussion is so far from practical use of a synth like Icarus and it's parameters that it does not seem to make sense to discuss this further in the way you just started it, at least IMO.

[goldenanalog]

Not meaning to derail the discussion about 3D waveforms, but I've always visualized audio waveforms in (3) dimensions portrayed like the way Virsyn's Poseidon does it on the ipad, as an example:



The (x) axis (left to right) is time;

The (y) axis (front to back) is a graph of the amplitudes of a fundamental plus up to (511) of it's harmonics (all sine waves) placed parallel to each other and in order with the lowest being in the back, and the highest in front - that run time-wise from left to right (note-on, to the end of the waveform)

The (z) axis (height) is the amplitude of the fundamental, plus each harmonic, at a given point in time.

The (2) 'scan' lines that you see, that run roughly diagonal from the bottom, then curve up; represent the (2) on-notes - F2 & E3 - following the 'contour' of the waveform at a speed and pattern defined by the user.

I guess that I'm used to looking at 3D synthesis in additive terms -

[Vectorman]

So now we know what the "third dimension" in the 3D wavetables is...oscillator morphing effects (sort of like what's seen in Massive or the many Oscillator FX in Zebra). Still, I'm a sucker for wavetable scanning synths and will have to check it out, as it will obviously have its own sound character relative to other wavetable synths, with a different complement of tables, different morphing algos going on, different filters, etc.

There just aren't enough hours in the day for all the toys.

[Ingonator]

Someone at the Tone2 forum just posted a Icarus patch that uses a wavetable based on the waveforms in the Moog Sub 37 (wavetable included in teh download too):
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=2411.0

FWIW my factory preset called "Hyper Brass IW" is based on a sample of the Sawtooth from a Moog Slim Phatty that i sold last year. I also got a full wavetable of the waveforms from the Phatty here (6 waveforms). I just added a download at the thread mentioned above.

Just noticed that that thread and the posted patch + wavetable at the Tone2 forum seems to be from OneOfMAnyPauls who also posted here. He posted more patches based on his Sub 37 wavetables there.

Besides the wavetable with 6 waveforms of the Moog Slim Phatty (Traiangle, Saw, Square, 3 Pulses) i now also posted 2 PWM wavetables based on the Square and 3 Pulse waveforms there. One is "unipolar" with a Square at Wave 1 and a narrow Pulse at the last Wave and teh other "bipolar" with the Square at the center (waveform 128) and narrow Pulse at the fisrt and last waveform.

Here are the Dropbox links for the wavetable with the 6 Slim Phatty waveforms and the 2 PWM wavetables:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... y%20IW.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... tables.zip

Even with the wavetable with only 6 waveforms a more or less smooth interpolation is possible when setting the Fade knob in the Osc to maximum. For proper PWM additional crossfading in the wavetable seemed to be necessary.

If necessary you could reduce the size of those PWM wavetables by using the features "Half size skipped" or "Half size interpolated" in the MIX menu/features at the left of the wavetable editor. Those 2 features reduce the size of the wavetable to the half.

[flakes2]

What i really dislike with wavetable synths is that they all got a harsh, digital sound with lots of energy in the high midrange. This one has a different sound. It sounds silky, warm and clean. Does someone know why?

[OneOfManyPauls]

3 oscillators/wavetables, good filters (imo), and effects (oscillator/wavetable and insert) certainly help - as do the choice of wavetables providing the initial sources for the patch. .

[aMUSEd]

Not meaning to derail the discussion about 3D waveforms, but I've always visualized audio waveforms in (3) dimensions portrayed like the way Virsyn's Poseidon does it on the ipad, as an example:



The (x) axis (left to right) is time;

The (y) axis (front to back) is a graph of the amplitudes of a fundamental plus up to (511) of it's harmonics (all sine waves) placed parallel to each other and in order with the lowest being in the back, and the highest in front - that run time-wise from left to right (note-on, to the end of the waveform)

The (z) axis (height) is the amplitude of the fundamental, plus each harmonic, at a given point in time.

The (2) 'scan' lines that you see, that run roughly diagonal from the bottom, then curve up; represent the (2) on-notes - F2 & E3 - following the 'contour' of the waveform at a speed and pattern defined by the user.

I guess that I'm used to looking at 3D synthesis in additive terms -

Yes as a long term Poseidon user that's how I'm used to it, the T2 definition of 3D is really more marketing than reality and something several wave table synths already do, Icarus just has slightly more options.

[Cinebient]

But you know, there is a simple option to use it or use it not!
It sounds good!
A few things are not so good like it let me only learn one midi cc to one knob.
So i would like to assign several knobs to one midi cc message. Or give me macros.

[Ingonator]

Someone at the Tone2 forum just posted a Icarus patch that uses a wavetable based on the waveforms in the Moog Sub 37 (wavetable included in teh download too):
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=2411.0

FWIW my factory preset called "Hyper Brass IW" is based on a sample of the Sawtooth from a Moog Slim Phatty that i sold last year. I also got a full wavetable of the waveforms from the Phatty here (6 waveforms). I just added a download at the thread mentioned above.

Just noticed that that thread and the posted patch + wavetable at the Tone2 forum seems to be from OneOfMAnyPauls who also posted here. He posted more patches based on his Sub 37 wavetables there.

Besides the wavetable with 6 waveforms of the Moog Slim Phatty (Traiangle, Saw, Square, 3 Pulses) i now also posted 2 PWM wavetables based on the Square and 3 Pulse waveforms there. One is "unipolar" with a Square at Wave 1 and a narrow Pulse at the last Wave and teh other "bipolar" with the Square at the center (waveform 128) and narrow Pulse at the fisrt and last waveform.

Here are the Dropbox links for the wavetable with the 6 Slim Phatty waveforms and the 2 PWM wavetables:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... y%20IW.zip
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... tables.zip

Even with the wavetable with only 6 waveforms a more or less smooth interpolation is possible when setting the Fade knob in the Osc to maximum. For proper PWM additional crossfading in the wavetable seemed to be necessary.

If necessary you could reduce the size of those PWM wavetables by using the features "Half size skipped" or "Half size interpolated" in the MIX menu/features at the left of the wavetable editor. Those 2 features reduce the size of the wavetable to the half.

Additionally to the wavetables from the Moog Slim Phatty posted earlier (see post above) I just created 2 wavetables based on my new Novation Bass Station II.
Here is a download:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/532 ... bles_1.zip

One wavetable is based on 9 samples of waveforms in the BS II (Sine, Triangle, Saw, Square, 5 different Pulses) + 8 additional crossdafaded waveforms added with the corresponding feature in the wavetable editor.

The other wavetable emulates PWM by using samples/single cycles of 11 different Pulse waveforms of the BS II. Like in the BS II those are based on Pulses betwen 5 and 95% where 50 is the Square (Square found at waveform 128 in the wavetable).

Those are the "pure" waveforms without additional Overdrive and/or Distortion but i wlll also check to create those with added Overdrive and/or Distortion soon.

[OneOfManyPauls]

Interesting looking at the individual waveforms in the slim phatty and bs ii wavetables - are these just raw oscillator waveforms, with the filter totally open/bypassed?

[chk071]

What i really dislike with wavetable synths is that they all got a harsh, digital sound with lots of energy in the high midrange. This one has a different sound. It sounds silky, warm and clean. Does someone know why?

Maybe because of the wavetables?

[Ingonator]

Interesting looking at the individual waveforms in the slim phatty and bs ii wavetables - are these just raw oscillator waveforms, with the filter totally open/bypassed?

All with full Cutoff indeed but i am not 100% sure if with the Slim Phatty also some Drive was added. The samples were alraedy a bit older. Maybe i will try to check this again. Before i sold the synth last year i made a bunch of samples at different waveforms and settings from which i have only used a few yet.

Those from teh BS II are made with the Classic filter at 24dB Lowpass, full Cutoff and no Overdrive or Distortion added. Options would be e.g. doing waveforms with th Acid fiter and/or Overdrive and Distortion.

BTW i have just modified the BS II wavetable (that with all waveforms) using a certain Morph mode and then rendered the result to a new wavetable with the "Apply Morph to Wavetable" feature in the Osc Tool menu.
This adds the current setting of the Morph mode to all waveforms in the wavetable at the currently selected Osc.
After this the Morph mode is automatically reset to default and you could add another Morph mode to the new wavetable and so on.

Actually i am not really interested to 100% replicate certain patches of both the Slim Phatty or Bass Station II but to see what is possible with those when used in Icarus. With my "Hyper Brass IW" factory preset where it uses a Slim Phatty Sawtooth i alraedy used some advanced features of Icarus like e.g. the Stereo Hypersaw modes tat are not possible with teh real thing.

Icarus is completely based on wavetables and has no analog like PWM imlemention so the wavetables based on PWM (like e.g. those i created from the Slim Phatty and BS II) could be quite helpful and nice for this. BTW the INIT feataure in the wavetable editor alraedy allows to create a basic PWm wavetable (by clicking on INIT and then "Create wavetable PWM").


PS:
FWIW i also got a wavetable with the 16 waveforms of my Korg DW-8000 here.

Not to forget that i had sampled all Prophet VS waveforms of my hardware Korg Wavestation EX in the past and have created a single wavetable for Icarus with all those waveforms inside.

[AnX]

...the T2 definition of 3D is really more marketing than reality and something several wave table synths already do...