How that can be a design flaw if you can assign any Env for the filter?!Ingonator wrote:The Serum filters do not have a dedicated knob for filter envelope amount, you fisrt have toassign an envelope to the Cutoff. Not a big problem but IMO a design flaw.
The second filter in Serum is monophonic. That does not count as a dual filter setup and t is far less useful.Ingonator wrote:
Maybe flakes2 should have said Serum does not have 2 full featured filters, opposing to Icarus...
On the other hand it is also easy to miss that second filter when it is "hidden" the FX section.
Actually i do think that if someone has real passion for products of certain developers it could be a good thing (while it could also turn into something bad of course). With almost endless choices this seems to be something that is quite rare recently. Many people even buy tons of synths where tehy have no clue how to use thejm properly. The times where i felt the need to get every new snyth just because it is popular and/or "hyped" (while a synth that is popular or "hyped" at KVR does not always have better sales than plugins that are not much talked about or talked bad about) are gone since a while and as i still got lots of synth i had sold a lot over the last years (both hardware and software).EnGee wrote: Man! You are biased and can't be objective when it comes to Tone2 and Waldorf, and this doesn't serve either of them!
But..your Sherminator image (Sound design, Handbooks, Testing) is on the Tone2 website as part of the 11 people team. "..real passion".Ingonator wrote:Actually i do think that if someone has real passion for products of certain developers it could be a good thing (while it could also turn into something bad of course). ....EnGee wrote: Man! You are biased and can't be objective when it comes to Tone2 and Waldorf, and this doesn't serve either of them!
Those Synth X vs Synth Y threads are pointless anyway, especially the Synth X Y Z vs Virus or "which synth sound s like a Virus" threads...recursive one wrote:I thought to make a Serum vs Icarus thread to gather opinions from people who actually use these two obviously competing products (I own neither of them but am interested in both) but I'm afraid it will turn into a total shitstorm and smartass replies fest.
The fact that i am mentioend there does not mean i am working full time for them or get a kind of fixed monthly payment. I did beta testing and sound design for multiple products (e.g. Saurus, Rayblaster, Nemesis, Icarus) but concerning the handbooks so far i had just translated around half of the Nemesis manual (german to english).Klinke1 wrote: But..your Sherminator image (Sound design, Handbooks, Testing) is on the Tone2 website as part of the 11 people team. "..real passion".
Of course you are not such a person just because you are biased! Come on!Ingonator wrote:Actually i do think that if someone has real passion for products of certain developers it could be a good thing (while it could also turn into something bad of course). With almost endless choices this seems to be something that is quite rare recently. Many people even buy tons of synths where tehy have no clue how to use thejm properly. The times where i felt the need to get every new snyth just because it is popular and/or "hyped" (while a synth that is popular or "hyped" at KVR does not always have better sales than plugins that are not much talked about or talked bad about) are gone since a while and as i still got lots of synth i had sold a lot over the last years (both hardware and software).EnGee wrote: Man! You are biased and can't be objective when it comes to Tone2 and Waldorf, and this doesn't serve either of them!
Yes i am biased towards those 2 developers but not because i am stupid and/or an a**hole but because i am convinced of their products since a long time (had my first Waldorf synth back in 2004 before using any plugins at all). Besides that i had lots of contact with the develeopers in the past, either personally (at the Musikmesse), by phone, via Skype or by email (With Waldorf actually all of those options have been used).
Wit both develeoeprs i ahd nice experience during both beta tseting and doing sound design for their synths and wit teh waldorf Pulse 2 i was very happy do to have done bot hbeta tseting and factory soujds for a hardware synth for the first time (and so far the only hardware synth tseting while i also got a free "NFR" version of the Streichfett String synth and had checked an early version of it at Muaikmesse...).
FWIW as mentioned several times at least i had checked Serum several times and do not simply "dismiss" or "hype" it based on what others tell. For me Icarus is simply superior terms of sound, features, CPU use and also workflow (taht modulation system in Serum could actually confusing IMO). Besides that i got a bunch of other graet wavetable synths including 2 hardware ones (Blofeld and UltraNova where the wavetable support in UltraNova is a bit limited compared to te Blofeld).
I am quite sure that even if i had the choice between Serum and Icarus and would have never used one of them before (or any other product of those developers) at the end i would have chosen Icarus.
I guess i could judge about Icarus better than you as i had used it for around 7 months now and had alraedy done a lot of my own patches and also wavetables with it.EnGee wrote: It is just that the more objective you are, the more people be convinced in what you write. It is not something in your nature, it is just you need to try all the time to be objective. I do! I try to not be influenced just by my emotions. The result is I have two tools that I kept writing negatively in the past about them, now they are my first choice to make music! (Bitwig and Serum!!). They are not perfect, and they are not the best tools in the world! But, I like them and feel comfortable with them!
few weeks ago, I preferred Icarus and it was on my list to buy. I liked its sound more, but judging from the presets only. When Splice's plan appeared, I tried it, but not only presets (as still I don't like them, Icarus has much much better presets), I did my own presets from init. Usually I just tweak what's there, but because the presets are so awful, I find it better to do my own. The more I progress, the more I like Serum. In the end, I found it really suits me more than Icarus! They are both great synths IMO, and the only real difference is our tastes! That is! Mazda 3 or Toyota Corolla? I like more Mazda 3 (but I actually have Mazda 2)
Ingonator wrote:I guess i could judge about Icarus better than you as i had used it for around 7 months now and had alraedy done a lot of my own patches and also wavetables with it.EnGee wrote: It is just that the more objective you are, the more people be convinced in what you write. It is not something in your nature, it is just you need to try all the time to be objective. I do! I try to not be influenced just by my emotions. The result is I have two tools that I kept writing negatively in the past about them, now they are my first choice to make music! (Bitwig and Serum!!). They are not perfect, and they are not the best tools in the world! But, I like them and feel comfortable with them!
few weeks ago, I preferred Icarus and it was on my list to buy. I liked its sound more, but judging from the presets only. When Splice's plan appeared, I tried it, but not only presets (as still I don't like them, Icarus has much much better presets), I did my own presets from init. Usually I just tweak what's there, but because the presets are so awful, I find it better to do my own. The more I progress, the more I like Serum. In the end, I found it really suits me more than Icarus! They are both great synths IMO, and the only real difference is our tastes! That is! Mazda 3 or Toyota Corolla? I like more Mazda 3 (but I actually have Mazda 2)
FWW i did not like Serum before Icarus was released (especially sound wise) and now that i got Icarus (and some other wavetable synths besides it) there is no need for Serum at all (at least for me).
Opposing to some of my favorite synths that usually inspired me from the first day on (including Icarus and especially Saurus and PPG Wave 3.V) Serum did never inspire me at all, even after checking the demo multiple times and trying to do my own patches with it. Makes no sense for me to do sound design for a synth taht does not really click with me.
BTW i reently bought a Bass Station II analog monosynth and got around 35 new patches within less than a week. It smply "clicked" with me whiel i had alraedy tested it more tahn one time before buying.
With Saurus which i bough more than 4 years ago it took less than 1 hour with the demo to buy it and it is one of my all time favorite synths. I had made an insane amount of patches with it (around 280 i guess), with PPG Wave 3.V (another favorite synth) the maount is comparable. As PPG 3.V allows sample playback i made a lot of my own samples (based on several synths) that enable me to play sounds with it that could not be done from scratch there (and most samples loaded into it did sound instantly great, even if it just loads single WAV files instead of multisamples).
Some of the analog filter models in Icarus also seem to be based on those in Saurus (and those in Saurus were actually based on a zero-delay feedback design).
BTW i had also sold Zebra 2 some years ago as i did have the same problem there. Lots of nice presets but it did not really inspire me to do my own patches (besides a few) or even a full soundset. Somehow similar with some other U-He synths like Bazille or Hive while i got Diva (includes a binch of my patches done during the public beta for it) and also ACE (while i had not used ACE for a while now).
You and others seem to think i am too stupid to notice which synths i like and which not and i get the impression that you somehow want to "force" me into liking Serum even if after multiple times of testsing it myself (first time before Icarus existed) came to the conclusion it is not for me and that i prefer Icarus and some others wavetable synths instead.exmatproton wrote: Maybe you should try to be objective as well as subjective. Lots of people love serum, lots love icarus (but less...it is a new synth ofcourse) and i don't think the way you talk about serum for instance, is completely fair. You are truly biased indeed.
Now, i believe you can 'just love' 1 synth and 'don't like' another, sure. But when you try to propogate towards one (or 2) companies soo hard, people won't take you that serious.
Bottom line; you don't like serum and you love icarus. But (what you don't (care to) say), both are really fun, extensive and creative tools. And they do have different things going on.
For instance, i like the filters and fx unit more in the serum synth. However, i like the osc possibilities more in icarus. But i don't like the way the edit screen works in icarus. And therefor there is a place for both synths. And not to forget, they sound completely different...
This statement is completely wrong!OneOfManyPauls wrote:I find the resynthesis in icarus to be brilliant and I find it better than serum.
Case in point - to convert a single clean oscillator sample to a wavetable in icarus just works. In Serum, the waveform splits are creeping along rather than giving a static waveform, introducing unwanted frequencies into the resulting wavetable when the "wt pos" is modulated.
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