Tone2 will release Icarus - 3D WaveTable Synthesizer

[pdxindy]

STRG + leftclick resets the parameter

The reset is not smart... most (all) parameters reset to middle, even if the default is at 0... which of course is not a reset at all

[Mac of BIOnighT]

I am intrigued about your decision process though. If you don't use comparisons to decide on the tools you choose in the first place, do you roll a dice or do the blindfold-and-pin thing?

Both, plus the weeny-meeny thing ;-P
I just try an instrument - if I like it, I use it, that's it.
When I have to pick a friend, I don't compare them to the other people I know and make a list of characteristics after analyzing them inside out: if I feel comfortable with them, they become my friends.

I can get onboard with "if I like it, I use it, that's it" - but before investing time into getting to know an instrument, it makes sense to see if there's something better suited that covers the same ground.

Reviews are just the outsourcing of the comparison/analysis process.

Reviews can be useful, but just to get a rough idea. Then you have to try the instrument yourself anyway. You don't marry a woman just because she's got good reviews. It's crazy to let someone else decide what suits YOUR needs!
In any case, all these pages of comparisons between this and that are totally pointless and incredibly boring... just see if the instrument suits your needs, try it out for yourself, MAKE MUSIC WITH IT, talk about its weak points and its strong points. I've got lots of instruments that are theoretically the same, and yet I get totally different results with them, and vice versa. If minor technical details are so incredibly important to one, it means his music is not...

[pdxindy]

Right-cicking opens the Midi Learn for that parameter (and then move teh controller to assign it there). Right clicking again closes MIDI Learn or removes the Midi Learn from that parameter.
If you asigne a controler the CC number is displayd at the center of the corresponding knob (inside a grey circle).

Right click on my MBP is Control-Click... this does nothing in Icarus.

[pdxindy]

In any case, all these pages of comparisons between this and that are totally pointless and incredibly boring

Of course if you feel that way, don't read it...

I've found plenty of value in comparisons on KVR. Such discussions bring out different points about the synths, bugs, issues, features etc that one might not discover in immediate testing.

[pdxindy]

For example, there is no fine control over parameters. Morph is 0-100 in integer steps. No finer possibility.

DOes not really work wit hteh Morph knob but with several other knobs you coudl hold the SHIFT key while adjsting values. This is especuiially helpful while adjusting the Wave knob, also to have a finer adjustment of interpolations between waveforms.

Thanks... I had not discovered that some controls had finer control because I tried it on a couple that didn't and stopped trying. I would like Morph to have a finer option, but it is good that Wave does have it.

[Ingonator]

STRG + leftclick resets the parameter

The reset is not smart... most (all) parameters reset to middle, even if the default is at 0... which of course is not a reset at all

Could indeed make sense to have this always going back to the values in the Init patch. With some parameters jumping back to the middle indeed does not seem to be correct (for example the Morp or envelope Attack knobs and also others).
Strange that this was not mentioend during the closed and the public Beta...

UPDATE:
Added a post here:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=2387.45

[Mac of BIOnighT]

In any case, all these pages of comparisons between this and that are totally pointless and incredibly boring

Of course if you feel that way, don't read it...

I've found plenty of value in comparisons on KVR. Such discussions bring out different points about the synths, bugs, issues, features etc that one might not discover in immediate testing.

I can say "Tom can't dance very well" as opposed to "Tom can't dance very well, because - you see - John is an excellent dancer, but only when it comes to modern styles, while Theresa is pretty good with popular dance styles from the 30's, but of course Marcela can do that and she can dance club music pretty well, too, and Martin, well, he cannot dance at all, as a matter of fact Stephen is always telling him, which is not very polite, especially considering that Stephen can't dress well at all, but Carline's taste is excellent, and it's obvious to everyone that karl..."

The first is straight to the point, we are talking about Tom, let's just talk about Tom, tell me what Tom can and can't do so I will learn something new about him. The second is boring, irrelevant and pointless, because we are not talking about John, Theresa, Stephen, Martin, Caroline and all the others, we're talking about Tom. In order to learn something about Tom, in this case I will have to sit through four hours of talk about people I don't care about...

[OneOfManyPauls]

If you're planning on spending the next few years with a dance partner, surely it'd make sense to know how Tom stacks up against the competition/alternative dance partner choices.

[pdxindy]

In any case, all these pages of comparisons between this and that are totally pointless and incredibly boring

Of course if you feel that way, don't read it...

I've found plenty of value in comparisons on KVR. Such discussions bring out different points about the synths, bugs, issues, features etc that one might not discover in immediate testing.

I can say "Tom can't dance very well" as opposed to "Tom can't dance very well, because - you see - John is an excellent dancer, but only when it comes to modern styles, while Theresa is pretty good with popular dance styles from the 30's, but of course Marcela can do that and she can dance club music pretty well, too, and Martin, well, he cannot dance at all, as a matter of fact Stephen is always telling him, which is not very polite, especially considering that Stephen can't dress well at all, but Carline's taste is excellent, and it's obvious to everyone that karl..."

The first is straight to the point, we are talking about Tom, let's just talk about Tom, tell me what Tom can and can't do so I will learn something new about him. The second is boring, irrelevant and pointless, because we are not talking about John, Theresa, Stephen, Martin, Caroline and all the others, we're talking about Tom. In order to learn something about Tom, in this case I will have to sit through four hours of talk about people I don't care about...

Sure... it is perfectly fine whatever you find to be of interest.

Me, I enjoy hearing about how John, Theresa and Stephen do something in a way that works better than how Tom does it. And since we are talking about synths which are often complex, using an example of how another synth does something in a more effective way is often the easiest way to understand it or explain it to someone else. It also demonstrates that that method is in actual use and is not just conceptual.

Plenty of times someone has said, hey, I like how Synth X implements this function better. Then I can download the demo of that synth and try it out and see for myself.

[JoeCat]

Maybe we need a separate "Should we have a Serum vs. Icarus Thread" thread?

Of course, we may then need a "Should we have a Serum vs. Icarus Thread, Thread" thread.

Then we'll need a spinning top or other totem to get back out...

Anyway, I think it's useful to compare - even with demos I'm having a tough time; would have to really live with one or the other for a while to know. It's a lot easier to do a Monark vs. Saurus, for example. Here there are so many variables; so much depends on the patch. I get pretty even amounts in the plus and minus columns in both the sound and workflow with a bit more going to Icarus for sound (It seems quicker to get to sitswellinthemix); workflow and aesthetics go to Serum.

All these years with synths and I still feel like a novice. I am kicking myself for selling my Blofeld.

Now if these were each on sale for $99...

[Sendy]

FWIW as mentioned several times at least i had checked Serum several times and do not simply "dismiss" or "hype" it based on what others tell. For me Icarus is simply superior terms of sound, features, CPU use and also workflow (taht modulation system in Serum could actually confusing IMO).

The sound of Serum is just not for me. Too hard and aggressive. I definitely like Icarus more.

But workflow?? Serum modulation is better than Icarus for sure. And Icarus (Tone2 in general) does not have a very refined GUI workflow. For example, there is no fine control over parameters. Morph is 0-100 in integer steps. No finer possibility. Double click does not reset value. No possibility to type in a value. Selecting mod matrix sources/targets is from long scrolling lists. The mod matrix is 3 tiny tabs and in general there is quite a bit of tabbing. I would much rather have the whole bottom be a matrix tab that showed all matrix options instead of 3 tabs and having to switch back and forth between them.

I think Tone2 is behind other top developers in evolving GUI's for workflow. I'm planning to get Icarus anyway because the synth is powerful and sounds good and is easy enough to use.

I tend to agree. Technically, I loved Serum, but it sounded so hard and solid. Perfect for dubstep I guess, but Icarus has a really organic sound for a wavetable synth. It's a very versatile sound. Perhaps if I got better at using Serum, I'd find it was also flexible, but you just go with what grabs you at first.

I also agree that Tone2 need to sort their GUIs out a bit. I really hope they tidy up that wavetable edit page (it looks like it was added at the last minute - no offence, I appreciate they wanted to get the synth out ASAP), assign fine-grain parameter adjustment to the mousewheel, and add double-clicking for parameter zeroing. I like to have one hand on the mouse and the other on the MIDI keys. Every time my hand comes off of the ivories for no good reason, a scintilla of resentment floats into my heart

I hate taking my hand off the ivories so much that sometimes I'll just try to zero a modulation setting with the mouse manually. But I can never get it to stop exactly on zero... So frustrating. A lot of synths have this problem.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

Plenty of times someone has said, hey, I like how Synth X implements this function better. Then I can download the demo of that synth and try it out and see for myself.

And you're willing to sit though six or seven pages of that before you try it out and see for yourself, which you have to do anyway? Clearly, you have plenty more spare time than I do

[OneOfManyPauls]

And you're willing to sit though six or seven pages of that before you try it out and see for yourself, which you have to do anyway? Clearly, you have plenty more spare time than I do

You're right - I don't think there's any mileage in web sites where people share their experiences and opinions with others...

[Mac of BIOnighT]

You're right - I don't think there's any mileage in web sites where people share their experiences and opinions with others...

You're missing my point: if I ask information about Tom (him, again), it's fine if you tell me that you actually prefer Jim because of his taste in food, but not for seven pages, since... we are (supposed to be) talking about Tom

[OneOfManyPauls]

did I miss the part where this site was only about what you wanted?