MeldaProduction

anton_s · Post by **anton_s** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Hi Vojtěch,

I am currently testing the responses of MDynamics and MMultibandDynamics to transients and other large changes in dynamics. Curiously, MDynamics seems to handle large transients gracefully, without distortion, whereas MMultibandDynamics introduces strange distortions.

For example, the screenshot below shows MDynamics vs MMultibandDynamics:
* Top lane: Original audio (a very low pitched sine wave)
* Middle lane: MDynamics (with settings Ratio = 10:1, Attack = 0ms, Release = 30ms, RMS = 60ms, Look-ahead = 60ms, Peak hold = 0)
* Bottom lane: MMultibandDynamics

No matter what settings I try for MMultibandDynamics, I can't get rid of the distortion. (I also note that MMultibandDynamics introduces latency or phase shift.)

I would appreciate any advice on why these distortions occur and, if possible, how to get rid of them.

MMultibandDynamics distortion and phase shift.jpeg

Tagirijus · Post by **Tagirijus** » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:23 am

Could you post the presets here? Since the dynamic processors of Meldaproduction are extremely versatile in its settings, just the values you gave us are not enough to recreate a distortion. There are plenty of other values, which could cause a different behaviour of the dynamic processor.

2nd: How did you make the waveforms?

3rd: Is the "issue" audible or just visual?

anton_s · Post by **anton_s** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:59 am

I am not quite sure how to share Melda presets, but I have attached an xml file that I think contains a preset for MMultiBandDynamics that I tried to make as similar as possible to the abovementioned settings for MDynamics. I should point out, however, that it is not exclusively this one preset that results in waveform distortions -- almost all settings that I tried do the same. The only settings that do not result in distortion, are those in which bands 2, 3 and 4 are either moved far away to the highest frequencies, or removed altogether, in which case MMultiBandDynamics responds similar to MDynamics.

2) The waveform in the screenshot above is simply a soft sine wave and a loud sine wave spliced together.

3) In this example, the issue is more visual than audible, since the large volume fluctuations would probably overwhelm the perception of distortions.

Tagirijus · Post by **Tagirijus** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:16 am

anton_s wrote:I am not quite sure how to share Melda presets,

Just copy the preset by clicking on the copy button in the plugin window. This wil generate a very long string and paste it into your clipboard. You will be able to paste it here. Best would be to embed the string into code tags. It would look like (do not use the space ebtween the brackets and the tag-word "code" like I did):

[ code ] 7BDNE826BNSJJU7MKD.... [ /code ]

anton_s wrote:2) The waveform in the screenshot above is simply a soft sine wave and a loud sine wave spliced together.

I was refering to the graphical output. Which analyzer did you use?

anton_s · Post by **anton_s** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:55 am

The analyzer that I used is simply REAPER's built-in waveform display (zoomed in a lot).

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ZentralmassivSound · Post by **ZentralmassivSound** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:26 am

That is understandeable behaviour. A sharp cut attack to full amplitude as you use it, is an impulse that contains a broad range of frequencies. So at the very moment of the attacking wave, there is actually not only the low sine but a short blip of broadband noise. When you solo individual bands in the multiband processor, you can hear the "click" sound in each of the bands.

The single band dynamics only controls the wave as a whole, so the balance of high and low frequencies are not changed and the bass tone remains a bass tone. But the multiband version compresses each band individually, so at the very attack phase the high frequencies get boosted a lot relatively to the low freq content. This results in the attack distortion you observe.

rasmusklump · Post by **rasmusklump** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:45 pm

I can't use the Melda Limiters for the same reason and never got a satisfactory solution.

The Melda limiters distort where none of my other Limiters distort... (Barricade Demo, BX_Limiter, Limiter No 6, BX_XXL, TLS)
And its not a nice analog distortion but an unwanted digital distortion most notably on bass instruments

DarkStar · Post by **DarkStar** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:56 pm

Which MeldaProduction plug-ins?

Remember that MLimiter is a saturator.

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:07 pm

rasmusklump wrote:I can't use the Melda Limiters for the same reason and never got a satisfactory solution.

The Melda limiters distort where none of my other Limiters distort... (Barricade Demo, BX_Limiter, Limiter No 6, BX_XXL, TLS)
And its not a nice analog distortion but an unwanted digital distortion most notably on bass instruments

I chose MDynamicsLimiter because I was able to achieve greater limiting and loudness than at least 2 other Limiters which were Fabfilter's and Ableton Live's. I haven't tried the ones you mention so I can't compare. But I use MDynamicsLimiter on everything and I'm very happy with it.

Did you experiment with Peak Hold and Look Ahead?

vectorwarrior · Post by **vectorwarrior** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:16 pm

Yeah, MLimiter should be called MSaturator but Vojtech doesn't want to change the name for compatibility reasons (makes sense I guess). MDynamicsLimiter is the 'standard' one-band Melda limiter. I find it to be pretty clean as long as you've got it set up right.

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:28 pm

But it also still is a very capable limiter

ZentralmassivSound · Post by **ZentralmassivSound** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:44 pm

If MDynamicsLimiter distorts, it's probably due to the saturation unit engaged and working too much, respectively, or the attack/release values of the dynamics section too short. You can disable saturation completely and set release to a higher value, that will result in less loudness and less or no distortion. It's all a matter of value tuning and finding a good compromise. And as said, look-ahead is always an option to try.

MeldaProduction · Post by **MeldaProduction** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:48 am

Ok so, as for MMultiBandDynamics - Zentralmassiv very well explained it above.

As for the limiters - MDynamicsLimiter is most transparent if you don't push it too hard (which I suggest

). MMultiBandLimiter allows more loudness and flattens the spectrum, but it gets hand in hand with distortion. If you think it's distorting too much, try increasing look-ahead and hold (I'm not sure if it is set in the defaults). In any case, if you hear distortion, than maybe you should just lower the drive

. Too loud is not cool anymore

anton_s · Post by **anton_s** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:29 am

ZentralmassivSound wrote:That is understandeable behaviour. A sharp cut attack to full amplitude as you use it, is an impulse that contains a broad range of frequencies. So at the very moment of the attacking wave, there is actually not only the low sine but a short blip of broadband noise. When you solo individual bands in the multiband processor, you can hear the "click" sound in each of the bands.

The single band dynamics only controls the wave as a whole, so the balance of high and low frequencies are not changed and the bass tone remains a bass tone. But the multiband version compresses each band individually, so at the very attack phase the high frequencies get boosted a lot relatively to the low freq content. This results in the attack distortion you observe.

Thanks for the explanation!

(BTW, I have since tested the same waveform on other multiband compressors such as Pro-MB and ReaXComp, and they all caused comparable distortions.)

ZentralmassivSound · Post by **ZentralmassivSound** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:24 am

I find the Limiter business pretty complex. The default settings of MDynamicsLimiter indeed distort pretty early, it can be improved significantly. I have tried to emulate the L2 and came up with some presets.

This is a general one, usually low distortion, I use this as my personal default.

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This one a bit more conservative, more safe against distortion, especially for bass rich material, may show a bit more pumping.

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And finally a more aggressive one, distorts decently when pushed, but also can achieve high loudness. Sometimes on drums the distortion does not actually sound too bad.

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