Spectrasonics rumors...

[Compyfox]

Do you tried Pianoteq's electric pianos Compyfox?

Years ago at trade shows. Been so out of the loop in this area of "physical modeling".

You should really try the demo again. I'm sure you will be surprised!

Oh crap, I brushed up my knowledge on Pianoteq, and damn this thing is expensive as "core player module" if I want editing capabilities and not just a player. I need to shell out whooping 250USD (bundled with two pianos out of a selection of 3 packs with 2 piano core libraries each)! So in this case, I really rather stay with GSi for the time being.


Still not sure where to put "Keysphere" for me personally (I kind of agree on the price part) - but I'm definitely massively annoyed about the state of StylusRMX. I sure hope we don't see "StylusPhere" in 2020 (as I mentioned earlier, and in fact joked about on Twitter).

[padillac]

People here might not like it, but Keyspace fills a gap in Spectrasonics's product portfolio.

Spectra is in LA - they're surrounded by film and TV composers and gigging musicians. Those guys can use Stylus RMX just fine as-is, they've got a huge arsenal of sounds via Omnisphere, and now this covers keys.

I wouldn't be surprised if a guitar product comes before a Stylus update. I don't think KVR is Spectrasonics's target market. They cater to working musicians... which as far as I can tell, is not the majority of KVR members.

Just because they didn't give you what you want, doesn't mean they're ignoring the market that they've been successfully serving for a few decades.

[Compyfox]

I wouldn't be surprised if a guitar product comes before a Stylus update. I don't think KVR is Spectrasonics's target market. They cater to working musicians... which as far as I can tell, is not the majority of KVR members.

Sorry but, EXCUSE ME?!

Do you say with this comment that (only) GearSlutz is "the market" or more for "working musicians" / audio engineers? That's like the third or fourth time I read this comment in the last 4 weeks alone - and it pushes all the wrong buttons in me.

Just because they didn't give you what you want, doesn't mean they're ignoring the market that they've been successfully serving for a few decades.

I'm sorry that I'm just a "mere StylusRMX user", but we've been ignored way longer than Trillian and Athmosphere/Omnisphere/Omnisphere 2 users.

I'm happy that my copy of RMX still runs fine, and I still discover new things (I said it years ago - Spectrasonics thinks more on the lines of creating "hardware" with their VSTi's). But the competition doesn't sleep and there are way more WAV samples/loops on the market than RX2 loops (which need to be converted manually, and then converted into SAGE for StylusRMX).

So why does only Omnisphere see add-ons, but all other tools out of their house are ignored?!



I understand that this new VSTi is there to fill a "gap" (which I didn't believe there was a need, but... eye of the beholder and stuff), but you can't ignore your userbase either that pretty much asks weekly for 3 to 4+ years straight at this point "will we see an update?!" (again, last RMX version was June 2010).

But YMMV - greatly even.

[Mystic]

I wouldn't be surprised if a guitar product comes before a Stylus update. I don't think KVR is Spectrasonics's target market. They cater to working musicians... which as far as I can tell, is not the majority of KVR members.

Sorry but, EXCUSE ME?!

Do you say with this comment that (only) GearSlutz is "the market" or more for "working musicians" / audio engineers? That's like the third or fourth time I read this comment in the last 4 weeks alone - and it pushes all the wrong buttons in me.

And yet, it's the truth. How many people here are career musicians or actively making a living doing this? The majority of people who buy Spectrasonics products and are "working" musicians (not hobbyists) are not exactly EDM people. While Stylus is a great product and used across many genres, it's not their big money maker nor are the majority of people here their major income stream.

So why does only Omnisphere see add-ons, but all other tools out of their house are ignored?!

I understand that this new VSTi is there to fill a "gap" (which I didn't believe there was a need, but... eye of the beholder and stuff), but you can't ignore your userbase either that pretty much asks weekly for 3 to 4+ years straight at this point "will we see an update?!" (again, last RMX version was June 2010).

But YMMV - greatly even.

Because Omnisphere is their money maker. If you have a product that is used in pretty much much all television and cinema by all the major composers, you put your main focus on that because these people, the ones who actually make a living in this industry, use this program every single day and they want to keep it as the "go-to" application for those people. You keep your main sources of publicity and income happy, they keep you in business. That's not really a hard one to figure out.

As for the update for RMX... Eric hinted that it's coming but like all things Spectrasonics, it's not an overnight thing because they have very high standards to uphold and he won't release it unless he's satisfied that it meets his criteria. Personally, I'd like to see a Trilian update first because it needs it badly and since I can use Omnisphere as a groove module, makes RMX less of a need (though it would still be nice in the future).

The guitar library is something that we've been asking for years as well for because of the standards Spectrasonics has. It would be a one-stop shop for those of us who do mainstream media work rather than having to go through 20 different libraries looking for the one sound we need in our project and would no doubt be the best in the market.

Yes, it sucks for people who like their RMX program, no they have not forgotten it but priority is based on popularity and their flagship product has that.

[beely]

I would imagine that doing a new library for a new RMX instrument would also be a major piece of work, as you'd probably have to rebuild all the old stuff to work with the new capabilities of the newer-featured engine, and develop a bunch of new content - and designing grooves, as it involves both sound design and music making, with multiple components, is probably a bigger and harder task than sampling out an electronic piano or three...

Plus as time goes on, expectations increase and technology moves forward - you don't want to end up releasing something that is already out-dated at the time of release, you want something that is going to be awesome going forward some years.

What I have been surprised at, given that RMX sold relatively well I think, is that they haven't continued to release expansions - this would seem to be a good source of continuing revenue. They did the core library, and they converted some of their older libraries to RMX format, and then... nothing on RMX, as they built Omnisphere and all that involved. It's a shame, as their charity mini-expansion "New Orleans Strut" was brilliant and a good taste of what might have been possible, had they continued to go down that line and provide themed groove expansions, but no...

Still, pretty sure that RMX2 will be an insta-buy for RMX owners (including myself) unless they really drop the ball on it (which I hope won't happen.)

[padillac]

I wouldn't be surprised if a guitar product comes before a Stylus update. I don't think KVR is Spectrasonics's target market. They cater to working musicians... which as far as I can tell, is not the majority of KVR members.

Sorry but, EXCUSE ME?!

Do you say with this comment that (only) GearSlutz is "the market" or more for "working musicians" / audio engineers? That's like the third or fourth time I read this comment in the last 4 weeks alone - and it pushes all the wrong buttons in me.

I don't know, I'm just speculating. Here's are the facts that I see in front of me:

* Spectrasonics is a company that aims to make money
* KVR has been clamoring for Stylus 2 for years
* Spectrasonics released a keys instruments

Other people have concluded "This is Eric's pet project" and "Spectrasonics isn't listening to their customers." I think those people underestimate Eric's and Spectrasonics's business savvy – they've been in business, serving musicians, for 22 years.

My conclusion is that Spectrasonics primary customer is not a KVR member. If that was their primary customer, they would have made Stylus 2, right?

Just because they didn't give you what you want, doesn't mean they're ignoring the market that they've been successfully serving for a few decades.

I'm sorry that I'm just a "mere StylusRMX user", but we've been ignored way longer than Trillian and Athmosphere/Omnisphere/Omnisphere 2 users.

I'm happy that my copy of RMX still runs fine, and I still discover new things (I said it years ago - Spectrasonics thinks more on the lines of creating "hardware" with their VSTi's). But the competition doesn't sleep and there are way more WAV samples/loops on the market than RX2 loops (which need to be converted manually, and then converted into SAGE for StylusRMX).

So why does only Omnisphere see add-ons, but all other tools out of their house are ignored?!



I understand that this new VSTi is there to fill a "gap" (which I didn't believe there was a need, but... eye of the beholder and stuff), but you can't ignore your userbase either that pretty much asks weekly for 3 to 4+ years straight at this point "will we see an update?!" (again, last RMX version was June 2010).

But YMMV - greatly even.

You're right, you can't ignore your user base. That's why I conclude that people asking for Stylus RMX is not Spectrasonics's primary market!

Eric Persing is not a dude on the internet slinging plugins. He's been in the music game a long time. It's extremely likely that he does talk to customers, and does listen to customers, and is giving them exactly what they want and need. It's also extremely likely that those customers are different from you and me.

Most successful companies have a target customer. They of course appeal to other sorts of customers as well... but they focus on the customers that make them the most money, not the ones who are loudest on the internet.

[AnX]

My conclusion is that Spectrasonics primary customer is not a KVR member.

Correct. Their primary customers are musicians/composers.

[lnikj]

My conclusion is that Spectrasonics primary customer is not a KVR member.

Correct. Their primary customers are musicians/composers.

Ouch

[VitaminD]

My conclusion is that Spectrasonics primary customer is not a KVR member.

Correct. Their primary customers are musicians/composers.

Ouch

It's true though. Most people here seem to be hobbyists and enthusiasts... especially the regulars/most active. That is ok though.

But it is no different from the photography forum I visit. Same back and forth banter about the next hardware. Same in-the-weeds debates about things that don't really matter. Meanwhile, the commercial shooter is using the same or older gear and is creating excellent output. I very rarely see those kinds of artists on the forums bickering about frivolous crap... or discussing anything at all... they probably don't have the time or inclination to bother.

[Compyfox]

And yet, it's the truth. How many people here are career musicians or actively making a living doing this? The majority of people who buy Spectrasonics products and are "working" musicians (not hobbyists) are not exactly EDM people.

Getting a little bit offended by that.

And GearSlutz (and only that!) on the other hand is?!

Where does the notion even COME FROM that the KVR users are worth crap in the audio industry?! Does that mean that all users and the company representatives hosting subforums here subforums are basically "not the market"?!

What idiotic argument is this anyway?!

While Stylus is a great product and used across many genres, it's not their big money maker nor are the majority of people here their major income stream. ...
Because Omnisphere is their money maker. If you have a product that is used in pretty much much all television and cinema by all the major composers, you put your main focus on that because these people, the ones who actually make a living in this industry, use this program every single day and they want to keep it as the "go-to" application for those people. You keep your main sources of publicity and income happy, they keep you in business. That's not really a hard one to figure out.

That's another idiotic argument. Do you even KNOW to what extend StylusRMX can be heard on TV, on the radio, in commercials in movies and games?! Heck it's 2016 and I still hear new soundtrack creations with RMX all over the place!

"it's not their money maker" - well, according to you, not as much anymore it seems - but it's still a widespread and highly regarded tool, used daily. By all kinds of musicians/techs.

As for the update for RMX... Eric hinted that it's coming but like all things Spectrasonics, it's not an overnight thing because they have very high standards to uphold and he won't release it unless he's satisfied that it meets his criteria. Personally, I'd like to see a Trilian update first because it needs it badly and since I can use Omnisphere as a groove module, makes RMX less of a need (though it would still be nice in the future).

Invalid argument - Eric is stating that for over 4 years (via Twitter, via Mail, via Forums, Interviews, you name it!). Also, Trillian can be easily integrated into Omnisphere. Unless you don't have Omnisphere (which a lot of people still do not, so I do understand the argumentation), I see no real reason for an update. Also - was it fully decked out to v1.99.xxx yet? (checks) nope, according to KVR, still v1.4.x - still a lot that can be done at this point (considering what happened with RMX 1.5, 1.7 and 1.9)

The guitar library is something that we've been asking for years as well for because of the standards Spectrasonics has. It would be a one-stop shop for those of us who do mainstream media work rather than having to go through 20 different libraries looking for the one sound we need in our project and would no doubt be the best in the market.

Define "we" - I did not ask for it to be honest. And there are plenty of alternatives with excellent key switching technology - oh wait... "the sound is inferior and cheap" (the main argument on the internet against Musiclab) or "it needs Kontakt" (the main argument against pretty much everything else).

Yes, it sucks for people who like their RMX program, no they have not forgotten it but priority is based on popularity and their flagship product has that.

Yeah, hype one tool until infinity and beyond - ignore the rest of the product line/users.

I would imagine that doing a new library for a new RMX instrument would also be a major piece of work, as you'd probably have to rebuild all the old stuff to work with the new capabilities of the newer-featured engine, and develop a bunch of new content - and designing grooves, as it involves both sound design and music making, with multiple components, is probably a bigger and harder task than sampling out an electronic piano or three...

Sorry - invalid argument IMO.

Athmosphere content was included in Omnisphere (as Stylus was included in StylusRMX and Trilogy in Trillian), and Omnisphere 2 could (did?!) also integrate the content of Omnisphere. Also, there is the Trillian implementation (part of an Omnisphere 2 update), etc.

Plus as time goes on, expectations increase and technology moves forward - you don't want to end up releasing something that is already out-dated at the time of release, you want something that is going to be awesome going forward some years.

Right - this is why Omnisphere got the native WAV load (as wavetable) update for free like when? Half a year ago? Or was it longer? Come to think of it, wasn't it part of a maintenance update short before Omnisphere 2 hit?

What I have been surprised at, given that RMX sold relatively well I think, is that they haven't continued to release expansions - this would seem to be a good source of continuing revenue. They did the core library, and they converted some of their older libraries to RMX format, and then... nothing on RMX, as they built Omnisphere and all that involved. It's a shame, as their charity mini-expansion "New Orleans Strut" was brilliant and a good taste of what might have been possible, had they continued to go down that line and provide themed groove expansions, but no...

The torch was passed over to 9Volt (gasp) and Zero G IMO. They were the ones that really put some cream on the top with their collections (mainly Zero-G's Total REX). But then it ends there. Why? Because RX2 is a PITA to create, and there are less and less libraries that come with pre-created REX loops! WAV (ACIDized or not) is more common, since it's just a matter of hitting render on a host. But I think we got stuck at v1.94 too soon to get the same feature as Omnisphere did (WAV loading).

I don't know, I'm just speculating. Here's are the facts that I see in front of me:

* Spectrasonics is a company that aims to make money
* KVR has been clamoring for Stylus 2 for years
* Spectrasonics released a keys instruments

Other people have concluded "This is Eric's pet project" and "Spectrasonics isn't listening to their customers." I think those people underestimate Eric's and Spectrasonics's business savvy – they've been in business, serving musicians, for 22 years.

My conclusion is that Spectrasonics primary customer is not a KVR member. If that was their primary customer, they would have made Stylus 2, right?

Nonsense... people also concluded that "another keyboard library" is not for them, because there already is a lot of content out there that covers the very same (if not more) fields. It's just not as "sphere-ified". Suddenly they are "not the market" (or rather, KVR isn't - a webboard that got created in the first place to talk about Software, what Gearslutz did not in it's early days! And now it's ultimately "the only forum to go for"?!).


I mean, on a serious sidenote. I have like 20 different pianos on my HDD. From AKAI to highly detailed, multi GB Kontakt scripts, I also have Toontrack EZ-Keys, I have Physical modeling Epianos on my HDD, I have access to various romplers. Tell me why I should abandon all that and get "Keysphere" instead?

So I'm in no need for this VSTi, big deal. But does that make me "not the market" and automatically an EDM producer?!? The fork! Have a spoon!

You're right, you can't ignore your user base. That's why I conclude that people asking for Stylus RMX is not Spectrasonics's primary market!

Again, nonsense!

Eric Persing is not a dude on the internet slinging plugins. He's been in the music game a long time. It's extremely likely that he does talk to customers, and does listen to customers, and is giving them exactly what they want and need. It's also extremely likely that those customers are different from you and me.

Most successful companies have a target customer. They of course appeal to other sorts of customers as well... but they focus on the customers that make them the most money, not the ones who are loudest on the internet.

A company's "primal goal" should be a successful and steady income while ideally covering all interested parties. Why do you think we saw so many runner-ups in terms of companies in recent years? Because they try to cover everything, they go mad on interaction and hype. Nothing against Eric, he's a very relaxed person and a great sound designer... but the only hype(!) I see from Spectrasonics, is retweating people "hey, I got Omnisphere - and it's so awesome". I barely see praise for RMX or Trillian, if at all from Spectrasonics these days - which were the tools that REALLY set a landmark for them in the software realm in mid 2000s.

Stylus users ask for an upgrade for 4+ years (2012), and that's already 4 years past the initial Omnisphere release (Athmosphere on Steroids, Omnisphere got released 2010, one year after Trillian, which was the successor to Trilogy which came out 2003 alogn with Athmosphere). In 2015 came Omnisphere 2 (so the third iteration of this synth). And now we have Keysphere.


To me, the market is focused a bit too much on the "Sphere" in recent years. And yes, I know where Eric Persing comes from, what he did before early 2000s, heck I still want the Roland XV5080 just because, and I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't stumble across a preset by him for my Kurzweil K2000. But again - this is ignoring the rest of the existing users, that are ready to shell out money at an instant. Though not for everything, which seems to be the sand in the gears in this debate (read: you don't need/like it, you're not the market, you're not a professional - which drives me up the f*cking walls!).

My conclusion is that Spectrasonics primary customer is not a KVR member.

Correct. Their primary customers are musicians/composers.

Ouch

Yes... ouch indeed.



Looks like I'm not "the market", I'm not a "professional" (since I'm among "the most active") and just an "EDM kid". KVR is just a kindergarten and a crap offset-forum compared to "professional environments like Gearsluts".

Well thanks for that... guess this thread has just ended for me. And my mood just shifted from "mildy annoyed" to "massively pissed".



Have a nice remaining weekend, everyone. Enjoy your "Sphere".

[beely]

You seem to take some general comments as aimed at you personally, and got offended by it - you should know better than to get so riled up on an internet forum!

Of course there are some good/professional musicians here. But the overall skew of this place, whether you like it or not (I'm reasonably sure) skews to hobbyists, young and EDM "producer" types, as opposed to, say, VI Control, which skews a very different way. GS skews another way. You don't need to get offended by it, it's just how it is - and it doesn't preclude any "type" of user from frequenting any form, of course. Heck, I hang out here, and am neither young, hobbyist, or an EDM producer - doesn't change the general skews - at least based on my perception and many years of experience here.

[murnau]

Of course there are some good/professional musicians here.

You forgot the rest of us: The ones who have failed (even they are "good" musicians).

[incubus]

Wow, quite a bit of drama here.

Well, it wasn't what I was expecting but the pretty obvious quality in the sampled package is worth celebrating in my opinion. I'm not entirely sure it's a product for me but I do love me a good piano.. and boy does that C7 sound good.

However, for quite a bit less I can get the Ravenscroft 275.. but I have to say the Spectrasonics C7 may be more to my liking.

349 euros? A bit on the steep side for me considering I'd most likely not use everything but I suspect as an Omnisphere 2 owner it may give me quite a bit of more use than one would think.

Really, at KVR?

I dunno, I don't think much is over the top. People know what they want. Considering the tastes of people and that they want innovation, it's not surprising. But then again you are talking about the forum that trolls people for buying used products and confirming prone issues

[noiseboyuk]

KERCHUNK

BBBBBBBRRRRRRRRR-KECHE-BANG!

(hiss)

What was that?

The sound of a thread derailing.

There's an awful lot of presumed knowledge in the past several posts that I buy very little off. The main one - the notion that Eric is motivated by the market. Any market. I think Eric is motivated by his own instincts, his own loves, his own standards and - probably - his own musician friends. They've served him pretty well so far, he probably reasons, and golly gosh he'd be right. My guess - nothing more, could be wrong - is that with Stylus, he got to a point where it was frustrating him to continue with the existing code, so he decided to stop updating it, and start afresh on The New Rhythm Thing (be that Stylus 2 or Beatscape... no, can't use that name, scratch that). It's proven to be a beast, it's not ready, it won't be out till it is. People forget - Omni 1 was kinda in similar limbo for a few years, when I guess they had to jump across to the new platform and call time on Omni 1 development. It might be reasonable therefore to deduce that the changes between Stylus RMX and TNRT, and the technical challenges, are greater than between Omni 1 and 2, but I wouldn't be 100% sure of that either.

The New Rhythm thing is being developed in tandem with, I'd guess, say up to a dozen other products. When they're marinaded and cooked until tender, out they come for musicians everywhere to drool over. The first one in a ready-to-go state was Keyscape. Seems odd to most of us, not what most of us could really do with right now, but that's happened to be what was ready first, one of a slew of libraries he wanted to do, and do well.

On the pro/amateur/KVR-are-jokers thing. I mostly hang around other forums which are mostly made up of pros. One of the constant refrains I hear on those forums is that the needs of the pros are insignificant, market-wise. The big money is in the DJs and the bedroom producers, so that wisdom goes. The pros are a niche market, so that wisdom goes. I really have no idea what Spectrasonics' sales figures are, but it seems utterly absurd to me to draw an inference that Stylus doesn't sell well, or isn't used by pros, because it hasn't been updated for years.

I think there's a whole lot of misunderstanding the whole company ethos here.

[Compyfox]

You seem to take some general comments as aimed at you personally, and got offended by it - you should know better than to get so riled up on an internet forum!

It's not "general" - it's BS, and I'm calling it out for what it is!

Of course there are some good/professional musicians here. But the overall skew of this place, whether you like it or not (I'm reasonably sure) skews to hobbyists, young and EDM "producer" types, as opposed to, say, VI Control, which skews a very different way. GS skews another way. You don't need to get offended by it, it's just how it is - and it doesn't preclude any "type" of user from frequenting any form, of course. Heck, I hang out here, and am neither young, hobbyist, or an EDM producer - doesn't change the general skews - at least based on my perception and many years of experience here.

Yet such made comments do, and constantly brand "KVR" as something inferior. Something that "doesn't need to be taken serious" - because "it's not a professional place compared to XYZ".


Without KVR, some developers wouldn't even have surfaced or members of the community be in the realm they are working now (may it be as software developer, audio engineer, musician, promoter - doesn't matter). KVR is complimentary to GearSlutz, and so is Gearslutz compared to KVR. Nothing is ultimately superior/inferior, both are filled and frequented with many, many professionals and up-and-coming artists. Those users are also "the market" - and not those with a low post count that apparently only have this, because they "are not as active due to making music instead".

Again, I'm calling out the BS here.



Else, I stand my ground. Have a nice weekend.