Diva: unexpected "mono" and "legato" behavior

[andrew732]

In Diva (rev. 3898), the mono and legato settings in the Main panel seem to behave unexpectedly. In particular:

1) Both mono and legato only retrigger the VCA envelope if there is a gap between consecutive notes. Per the user manual, I would expect this from legato mode, but not from mono mode.

2) Glide (portamento) is ignored in legato mode when there is a gap between consecutive notes, but it is active if the consecutive notes overlap. I would expect glide to be active at all times, like it is in mono mode.

Anyone else experiencing this? Is this somehow the correct behavior and I'm not understanding something really basic about synthesizers? It's very easy to demonstrate with a minimal sawtooth patch, and I considered making a video, but I'm pretty sure a video wouldn't reveal anything beyond what I described. If nobody else is experiencing it, then maybe I'll have to make a video that proves it though. Thanks.

[EvilDragon]

2) is by design I think. u-he made it so that legato mode implies legato glide as well (meaning only happening when notes are overlapping, also sometimes called "auto" mode on some vintage synths). I'm personally fine with this choice.

1) might be a bug but I'm not sure... it sure does make sense to retrigger both envelopes in "mono" mode... Let's see what Urs says

[andrew732]

Thanks, that does make sense and it doesn't contradict anything in the manual. #1 is more troublesome though and seems to directly contradict the manual.

[tasmaniandevil]

2) The Evil One already explained it. Everything fine, it's by design.

1) Please try updating to the latest version. Diva is currently at revision 4078, not 3898 anymore. I've checked 4078 and the VCA envelope is retriggering correctly in mono mode. So might have been a bug in the older version, eventually.

[Urs]

Legato means "only glides when played legato but only retriggered when not".

In the early days of software synthesizers this was often called "Minimoog mode" even though the Minimoog doesn't do that. On some vintage synths such as the Pro-One the not-triggering-when-played-legato was called "normal" while glide-only-when-played-legato was called "auto". On the Pro-One both options can be switched on or off independently, which is something we seek to do in a future update of our flagship synths (i.e. probably all of the commercial ones).

- Urs

[EvilDragon]

Actually no, I can reproduce VCA envelope not retriggering correctly in "mono" mode. Set attack time to a bit longer, and play legato. Instead of retriggering every note's envelope (restarting the attack), it doesn't do that. It only restarts attack time when you play non-legato. VCF envelope is the same, actually. This is with latest revision, too.

Unless this is intentional? Hmm...

[Urs]

Actually no, I can reproduce VCA envelope not retriggering correctly in "mono" mode. Set attack time to a bit longer, and play legato. Instead of retriggering every note's envelope (restarting the attack), it doesn't do that. It only restarts attack time when you play non-legato. VCF envelope is the same, actually. This is with latest revision, too.

Unless this is intentional? Hmm...

That's how it is in analogue synths. When triggered, the envelope's Attack phase pick up from where Release has taken it. If it's not fully decayed, the Attack time gets shortened.

[tasmaniandevil]

Ah, I see. I only tested it with relatively short attack times.
Maybe we should add some more detailed info about the re-trigger behaviour of the envelope stages to the manual at some point.

[EvilDragon]

Actually no, I can reproduce VCA envelope not retriggering correctly in "mono" mode. Set attack time to a bit longer, and play legato. Instead of retriggering every note's envelope (restarting the attack), it doesn't do that. It only restarts attack time when you play non-legato. VCF envelope is the same, actually. This is with latest revision, too.

Unless this is intentional? Hmm...

That's how it is in analogue synths. When triggered, the envelope's Attack phase pick up from where Release has taken it. If it's not fully decayed, the Attack time gets shortened.

Ah alrighty then. Does it make sense to have a retrigger mode (analog/digital) switch added, then? In some cases one might want the envs to retrigger from 0 no matter what.

[Urs]

Ah alrighty then. Does it make sense to have a retrigger mode (analog/digital) switch added, then? In some cases one might want the envs to retrigger from 0 no matter what.

That won't be necessary. I think all we need is a round-robin mode through the voices, like it's done in Zebra.

Which reminds me, in future we'll generally implement note stealing like this (envs pick up from where they are). This will eliminate a lot of headaches, clicks, pops and headaches. Not to mention, headaches.

[EvilDragon]

Makes sense

[andrew732]

I'm confused now. Is there any difference between "mono" and "legato" modes aside from glide behavior?

[Urs]

I'm confused now. Is there any difference between "mono" and "legato" modes aside from glide behavior?

Yes. In "mono" mode envelopes get triggered even when you play legato. That means, true legato play is not possible in "mono" mode.

(however, if your envelopes have long release times it might not be an obvious difference)

[andrew732]

OK, I get it now. I'm kind of amazed that I've gone for years without noticing these basic properties of envelopes, but that's what's great: there's always more to learn. Thanks for clearing this up!