MuTools

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:50 pm

Thanks a lot for your detailed feedback Calum. It's unexpected to read that audio cpu usage would differ between M7.0 and M7.1 cause all these M7.1 Mac works have little to do with the audio engine. When comparing audio cpu usage pls doublecheck using the exact same audio setup ie same audio device, same buffer size, same samplerate, same num audio processor threads, same background activity, etc. What exactly were the cpu meter's Avg values for Sierra for M7.0 and M7.1? The tests i did myself on a Mac OSX 10.11.6 64 bit and a Mac OSX 10.6.8 32 bit showed more or less the same audio cpu usage for M7.0 and M7.1. The past 2 weeks we have been talking a lot here about cpu usage of the UI part, which is not reflected in MuLab's own cpu meter (which measures the audio cpu usage only) but it is reflected by Activity Monitor. Luckily it seems that M7.1.18 fixes the last bottlenecks there. I expect to be able to test MuLab 7.1 on Sierra myself one of the days and i'll repeat the audio cpu test then. I hope other Mac users will also continue to provide feedback about how M7.1.18 is running on their system and also do a performance comparison with M7.0.47.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:35 pm

Jo, yes, it was a surprise to me too. I made sure the audio setup was identical and I put all the MuLab apps in the same MuLab folder so they accessed exactly the same settings. For the tests run in Sierra, the CPU AVG idle values were a constant 11% for M7.0.47 and 13% for M7.1.9/14/15/18. The CPU MAX average max values were 91% for M7.0.47, 96% for M7.1.14, 97% for M7.1.18, 101% for M7.1.15 and 104% M7.1.9. I made sure there were no other apps running and I cycled the tests through each version of MuLab three times, quitting and restarting each app before testing again. The only thing I had no control over was background activity so perhaps that would account in part for any discrepancies.

Personally, I'm more likely to use MuLab on Snow Leopard (or at least an earlier version of OSX than Sierra) so all is good for me. I was curious to see how Sierra would function on my ageing Mac after some bad experiences with El Capitan so I thought, going forward, you may be interested in the results. Mind you, even if you optimised Mulab further specifically for Sierra who knows what Apple's next Sierra update would bring to the table - could potentially break all your hard work - but hopefully not!

toxicoh · Post by **toxicoh** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:26 am

I'm finding this latest update is absolutely brilliant. For what it's worth, using a MuProject with 7 tracks using 7 different instances of Mux (sample only) and no other VSTs this idles at 5% CPU. This increases to 7% when playing.

A more complex MuProject with 5 tracks driving synths, effects, and vocals idles at 21%, and plays at 30%.

I enjoyed Snow Leopard but (regretably) I upgraded to Mavericks early. That was dreadful. I missed having Rosetta to run some old games. Mulab ran well, but I lost some older VSTs.

My experience of Yosemite was much better overall. Most things worked as before, including Mulab. El Capitan introduced "beachball hell", and even running one program at a time hung frequently. So I upgraded to Sierra as soon it was released, and noticed better performance, but still many beachballs using multiple programs. Mulab was ok to run on its own.

Getting an extra 4MB RAM module for about $50 made a huge difference (to everything). Now everything "just works", like having a new machine. I'd recommend going to Sierra if you have 8GB RAM and new-ish VSTs. The Line 6 and Edirol drivers work well.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:52 am

Calum wrote:Jo, yes, it was a surprise to me too. I made sure the audio setup was identical and I put all the MuLab apps in the same MuLab folder so they accessed exactly the same settings.

Yes that's a good test setup.

For the tests run in Sierra, the CPU AVG idle values were a constant 11% for M7.0.47 and 13% for M7.1.9/14/15/18. The CPU MAX average max values were 91% for M7.0.47, 96% for M7.1.14, 97% for M7.1.18, 101% for M7.1.15 and 104% M7.1.9.

Not a big difference, right? Ok it seems M7.1 uses a little bit more on your Sierra. Maybe be related to the 64 bit aspect, or may be related to another system specific thing. (eg some 64 bit driver using more cpu on Sierra?)

I made sure there were no other apps running and I cycled the tests through each version of MuLab three times, quitting and restarting each app before testing again.

Thanks for your solid testing!

Personally, I'm more likely to use MuLab on Snow Leopard (or at least an earlier version of OSX than Sierra) so all is good for me. I was curious to see how Sierra would function on my ageing Mac after some bad experiences with El Capitan so I thought, going forward, you may be interested in the results. Mind you, even if you optimised Mulab further specifically for Sierra who knows what Apple's next Sierra update would bring to the table - could potentially break all your hard work - but hopefully not!

I won't optimize MuLab for specific OSX versions. Apple has proven to be too erratic with its OSX versions and so indeed chance is too high that a lot of such work has to be trashed with each (main) OSX update. Can't afford that as an indie dev.
To be honnest now that i now the actual MuLab cpu figures on Sierra, i don't think there is a new MuLab issue. I still regard M7.1.18 as (very) good. Well, except for a new issue wrt the file browser, it's a new issue that started in M7.1.18 as a consequence of my attempt to solve the wont-launch issue, which is related to file paths. I'll r&d a better solution now. Thanks for all testing and feedback! If you would encounter any other issues, please let me know. Thanks!

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:57 am

Thanks for your interesting feedback toxicoh!

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:38 am

toxicoh wrote:My experience of Yosemite was much better overall. Most things worked as before, including Mulab. El Capitan introduced "beachball hell", and even running one program at a time hung frequently. So I upgraded to Sierra as soon it was released, and noticed better performance, but still many beachballs using multiple programs. Mulab was ok to run on its own.

Similar upgrade path to myself and similar experiences with recent OS X versions. I had come to the conclusion that, out of all the recent versions of OS X (Mavericks onwards), Yosemite hit the sweet spot for older MACs. Good to have confirmation of this. I will stick with Sierra for a bit longer (at least until the next incremental update) but I'll more than likely revert back to Yosemite at some point. Just glad I still have a Snow Leopard partition for audio stuff.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:43 am

mutools wrote:To be honnest now that i now the actual MuLab cpu figures on Sierra, i don't think there is a new MuLab issue. I still regard M7.1.18 as (very) good.

Agreed on both points.

mutools wrote:Thanks for all testing and feedback! If you would encounter any other issues, please let me know.

You are welcome and of course!

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:15 am

Calum wrote: Just glad I still have a Snow Leopard partition for audio stuff.

Sadly, there are now some plugs requiring 10.10 or better. I hope this is not a trend.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:24 am

There is a new MuLab 7.1.19 for Mac 64 bit: http://www.mutools.com/galaxa/

How to install: Replace the current M7.1.x MuLab.app file with this newest version.

This new version fixes some issues wrt using file/folder paths due to a change in M7.1.18 in order to solve the wont-launch prob. Now all should be fine, found a neat solution that solves all. Pls do update to M7.1.19.

Hey good news, my OSX todo list is empty atm.
If you would encounter any remaining issues, pls report them here!

Now i'll continue on that new module i'm adding, and once that's ready for testing also the MuLab 7.1 for Windows versions will become available.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:55 pm

Just curious, I'm assuming 32 bit OS X support will be dropped?

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:05 pm

Not necessarily. But why would you need it? The only reason i see is that you would still use a 32 bit Mac and thus cannot run the 64 bit version. I could make a M7.1 32 bit version but note that it does not use Carbon anymore and so many (most?) VST plugins won't show an editor as only the ones that support the "hasCockosViewAsConfig" effCanDo (a non standard VST extension) will still show a real editor.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:42 pm

Yes, that makes sense. I forgot that my 32 bit plugins would not show up and that's the only reason I would want to keep a 32 bit version of MuLab at hand. I probably would not use it that often - more likely to use the PC 32 bit version of MuLab in wine to access PC versions of my plugins. And there's always M7.0.47 or jbridge if I do need the Mac versions.

jd88 · Post by **jd88** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:17 pm

Nice little crash 'on the fly'.

fastest way to compare / test:

1. After open Mutools (new projekt), replace the Basic synth with 'Multiform Osc' (Modules in Audiogen.)
2. if you see the GUI of it, simple doubleclick 'WaveIndex' an type in the valuefield as example '1' & ENTER

Here we go and 'good by'. ( very simple to fix)

I sent you crashlog via mail

sorry, that I found this

- - - -

The flickernig (VST's talked about) is gone. Thx. This version know is excellent.

(I'll contact waldorf because ppg. Looked into it myselfe and seems you're right - about a plug-problem)

- - - -

(will be nice, if people in future can download a 32-bit too. Maybe your last 32-bit version 7.0.47. As example maybe want using it on my old mac's and pc's 32 bit)

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:55 pm

jd88 wrote: Nice little crash 'on the fly'.
fastest way to compare / test:
1. After open Mutools (new projekt), replace the Basic synth with 'Multiform Osc' (Modules in Audiogen.)
2. if you see the GUI of it, simple doubleclick 'WaveIndex' an type in the valuefield as example '1' & ENTER
Here we go and 'good by'. ( very simple to fix)

Thanks for the step by step! Indeed a bug. Fixed in the next M7.0.20, available soon.

I sent you crashlog via mail

Well received. Replied.

sorry, that I found this

No sorry, Good!!

(will be nice, if people in future can download a 32-bit too. Maybe your last 32-bit version 7.0.47. As example maybe want using it on my old mac's and pc's 32 bit)

The Windows 32 bit version will continue, it's only the Mac 32 bit version that stops and that has a lot to do with Apple / Mac itself. But the M7.0.47 Mac Carbon 32 bit version will stay available in the 'unsupported' legacy collection: http://www.mutools.com/mulab/legacy-versions/

Theoretically i could also make a M7.1 Mac Cocoa 32 bit version but i wonder whether that makes much sense as many / most VST plugin editors won't show up cause they don't support the effCanDo "hasCockosViewAsConfig" VST extension. And so users might get confused, so i think it's better to continue with the Mac Cocoa 64 bit version only. (together with the Windows 32 + 64 bit versions of course)

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:04 pm

There is a new MuLab 7.1.20 for Mac 64 bit: http://www.mutools.com/galaxa/

How to install: Replace the current M7.1.x MuLab.app file with this newest version.

What's changed:

* Fixed a crash bug when changing the loop length of a sequence.
* Added extra protection wrt. entering invalid parameter values.
* Mouse cursor sometimes was not properly updated eg when hovering envelope points.

If there are any other issues, pls let me know. Thx.

MuTools

KVR Audio

MuLab 7.1.30