Hi does anyone know why this works?
If I try to assign my controller synth 8 sliders using Uhes Divas internal midi cc assignment, all the midi cc assignments are 7. So if I assign 4 of the 8 sliders all the parameters assigned are the same = 7. (I try to put them on the ADSR envelopes) as they look similar. If I move slider 1 all 4 adsr envelopes move in unison, 2 etc, 3 the same. (Yamaha tells me that all their sliders are assigned to midi cc 7)
However, if I use Fl studios multilink button to assign each slider to its own control within Diva then it assigns correctly and each slider moves its own control independently like it should.
Why the difference in how controls are assigned?
Is there a fix that can be made to uhes internal midi assignment so that we can make the controls work independently like Fl studio does? This would open up more controllers to work with uhe products in any DAW (I think)
Uhe midi cc assignment issue DIVA
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- KVRian
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Apparently here is what is going on. Can someone from Uhe address this? It is causing an issue with my very expensive hardware.
Re: Fl studio midi assignment verses internal DIVA assignment
It's not the CC#
As I indicated initially, apparently Diva does not use channel #. FLS certainly does, and shows it in the log.
Channel Voice Messages
1011nnnn > Control Change [nnnn = 0-15 (MIDI Channel Number 1-16)]
Re: Fl studio midi assignment verses internal DIVA assignment
It's not the CC#
As I indicated initially, apparently Diva does not use channel #. FLS certainly does, and shows it in the log.
Channel Voice Messages
1011nnnn > Control Change [nnnn = 0-15 (MIDI Channel Number 1-16)]
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- u-he
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
You can change the channel in the MIDI Configuration page (the one with the list of assignments, not the MIDI Learn one). Click the cogwheel on the top right of the UI and go to the second page.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Thanks that doesnt work though. changing the channel does nothing to make it work. Something special with the way Fl handles it so that it actually works in their DAW with my synth.
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- u-he
- 30222 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Hmmm, if FL does not pass the channel information through to the plug-in I'm afraid we can't do anything about it.melodyz wrote:Thanks that doesnt work though. changing the channel does nothing to make it work. Something special with the way Fl handles it so that it actually works in their DAW with my synth.
Does it work with any other plug-in?
I'll have our guys check this out.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Perhaps I can give you a little more background on what I am trying to do.
So I got the Montage keyboard and was hoping it would be my one keyboard to do all things and come to find out that they really only allow 8 knob assignments, however the sliders (faders ) do have a midi cc out of 7. ( i begged Yamaha to change this but for some reason they are pretty resiliant to ideas along this line.)
So Fl studio has a built in midi assignment that does seem to work with the sliders and makes them act independently and I want those on the 2 envelopes ADSR since they look similar. I can do this but then I would have to use Diva in Fl Studio and always have it in a startup template with the controls assigned - I would much rather have it by using Divas built in one. Ultimately, I believe that if anyone figures out what makes Fl studios assignment tool work for this problem could be shared and improve the experience in Diva too. I am quite sure a Diva/montage combo is the ultimate in user experience!
FL STUDIO RESULTS (maybe this means something to you)
CC 7 on Midi channels 1 - 4
B0 07 55
B1 07 03
B2 07 0A
B3 07 55
I was hoping to use Divas internal assignment so I could also use it in Cubase whenever I start it up.
The twofold problem is on all Diva internal controls is like I described ADSR moves in unison whenever I move any of the sliders. The second issue is that for some reason that you should probably be aware of, if I try to use Fl studio and then use Divas built in assignment nothing can be assigned to the control - its completely unresponsive. I can only do use Divas internal assignment in Cubase but the results are as I described all midi cc 7 controls move in unison.
Heres a grid to help show what is happening.
FL Studio assignment
slider (fader) 1 = Attack
slider 2 = Decay
slider 3 = Sustain
slider 4 = Release
Diva internal Assignment in Cubase
slider (fader) 1 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
slider 2 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
slider 3 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
slider 4 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
So I got the Montage keyboard and was hoping it would be my one keyboard to do all things and come to find out that they really only allow 8 knob assignments, however the sliders (faders ) do have a midi cc out of 7. ( i begged Yamaha to change this but for some reason they are pretty resiliant to ideas along this line.)
So Fl studio has a built in midi assignment that does seem to work with the sliders and makes them act independently and I want those on the 2 envelopes ADSR since they look similar. I can do this but then I would have to use Diva in Fl Studio and always have it in a startup template with the controls assigned - I would much rather have it by using Divas built in one. Ultimately, I believe that if anyone figures out what makes Fl studios assignment tool work for this problem could be shared and improve the experience in Diva too. I am quite sure a Diva/montage combo is the ultimate in user experience!
FL STUDIO RESULTS (maybe this means something to you)
CC 7 on Midi channels 1 - 4
B0 07 55
B1 07 03
B2 07 0A
B3 07 55
I was hoping to use Divas internal assignment so I could also use it in Cubase whenever I start it up.
The twofold problem is on all Diva internal controls is like I described ADSR moves in unison whenever I move any of the sliders. The second issue is that for some reason that you should probably be aware of, if I try to use Fl studio and then use Divas built in assignment nothing can be assigned to the control - its completely unresponsive. I can only do use Divas internal assignment in Cubase but the results are as I described all midi cc 7 controls move in unison.
Heres a grid to help show what is happening.
FL Studio assignment
slider (fader) 1 = Attack
slider 2 = Decay
slider 3 = Sustain
slider 4 = Release
Diva internal Assignment in Cubase
slider (fader) 1 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
slider 2 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
slider 3 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
slider 4 = Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
MIDI control change messages are very simple. Those numbers are in hexadecimal. Bn XX YY where B is the prefix in the MIDI standard to denote control change messages, n=MIDI channel 0-F with 0 being the first channel. Next XX=00-FF is the control change number (in this case 07 = volume). Finally, YY=00-FF is the value to send for the controller.FL STUDIO RESULTS (maybe this means something to you)
CC 7 on Midi channels 1 - 4
B0 07 55
B1 07 03
B2 07 0A
B3 07 55
What that block tells me is you have 4 devices sending data on 4 different midi channels 1-4, all using the same CC number 7 (volume). Based on the data stream I'm not sure if that's absolute or one of the relative modes.
I just did a quick test in Reaper + Diva 3808 + ReaControlMIDI in absolute mode and verified I was able to uniquely control ENV1 Attack with CC7 on MIDI channel 1, and ENV1 Decay with CC7 on MIDI channel 2. I'm not sure why it's not working for you but it may help you to know that sending the same CC on different MIDI channels works for at least one other person.
Feel free to call me Brian.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Hi Brian
It looks like you were able to do this using Reapers midi assignment tool. I was able to do the same thing using Fl studios assign tool. The issue is Divas internal midi assignment tool. Click the gear on Diva. On your controller do you have faders? Do you faders work using Divas internal midi assignment tool?
I cannot get the internal Diva tool to work in Fl studio and when I try it in Cubase, all faders move all ADSR parameters at the same time not independently. My keyboard transmits all controls on a single transmit channel which may be the issue.
It looks like you were able to do this using Reapers midi assignment tool. I was able to do the same thing using Fl studios assign tool. The issue is Divas internal midi assignment tool. Click the gear on Diva. On your controller do you have faders? Do you faders work using Divas internal midi assignment tool?
I cannot get the internal Diva tool to work in Fl studio and when I try it in Cubase, all faders move all ADSR parameters at the same time not independently. My keyboard transmits all controls on a single transmit channel which may be the issue.
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tasmaniandevil tasmaniandevil https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62450
- KVRAF
- 2176 posts since 22 Mar, 2005 from a planet called u-he
If I understood you correctly, you would actually want to use Diva with Cubase, right?
The issue is that even if you send the CC7 data from multiple channels into Cubase, Cubase does not filter MIDI input channels individually. Data from all 16 MIDI channels is mixed together in Cubase.
That is why all the envelope parameters are moving at once in Diva.
There is a workaround solution, which is explained here: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73053
I'll try to explain how the workaround works:
From what you have written earlier, I assume that you have set up the Montage to send out the CC7 data from each slider to a different MIDI channel number (from 1 to 8 ), correct?
In Diva, you can set up all the envelope parameters manually, so that each parameter receives CC7 from a different MIDI channel. Here is how the MIDI table would look like, if everything is set up correctly: Then you have to create eight MIDI tracks in Cubase, all assigned to Diva, each with a different MIDI channel, and all eight tracks have to be set to 'record enabled'. It would look like this: And on each track, you have to enable the 'Input Transformer' and select a 'Channel Filtering' preset, so that each track will only receive the MIDI data from one channel.
Looks like this: Then, assuming your Yamaha Montage really sends the CC7 from each slider on a different MIDI channel, everything should work. It's a clumsy workaround, but it works.
The issue is that even if you send the CC7 data from multiple channels into Cubase, Cubase does not filter MIDI input channels individually. Data from all 16 MIDI channels is mixed together in Cubase.
That is why all the envelope parameters are moving at once in Diva.
There is a workaround solution, which is explained here: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73053
I'll try to explain how the workaround works:
From what you have written earlier, I assume that you have set up the Montage to send out the CC7 data from each slider to a different MIDI channel number (from 1 to 8 ), correct?
In Diva, you can set up all the envelope parameters manually, so that each parameter receives CC7 from a different MIDI channel. Here is how the MIDI table would look like, if everything is set up correctly: Then you have to create eight MIDI tracks in Cubase, all assigned to Diva, each with a different MIDI channel, and all eight tracks have to be set to 'record enabled'. It would look like this: And on each track, you have to enable the 'Input Transformer' and select a 'Channel Filtering' preset, so that each track will only receive the MIDI data from one channel.
Looks like this: Then, assuming your Yamaha Montage really sends the CC7 from each slider on a different MIDI channel, everything should work. It's a clumsy workaround, but it works.
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That QA guy from planet u-he.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Thanks for your help
it sounds like you know what you are talking about. Perhaps you can read the Montage reference manual about zone settings. IT allows up to 8 zones and each zone can transmit on a single channel of your choice.
What I cannot figure out is how FL studio and reaper was able to work around this limit and Cubase requires a special setup. I guess it has to do with supply and demand for features. I guess Ill just have to use FL studio when recording. I was trying to give Cubase a chance but your suggestion looks like it may not work as Montage transmits on 1 channel at a time.
it sounds like you know what you are talking about. Perhaps you can read the Montage reference manual about zone settings. IT allows up to 8 zones and each zone can transmit on a single channel of your choice.
What I cannot figure out is how FL studio and reaper was able to work around this limit and Cubase requires a special setup. I guess it has to do with supply and demand for features. I guess Ill just have to use FL studio when recording. I was trying to give Cubase a chance but your suggestion looks like it may not work as Montage transmits on 1 channel at a time.
Last edited by xtreme sounds on Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tasmaniandevil tasmaniandevil https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62450
- KVRAF
- 2176 posts since 22 Mar, 2005 from a planet called u-he
Oh, and I have only seen your last post after entering my reply.melodyz wrote:I cannot get the internal Diva tool to work in Fl studio and when I try it in Cubase, all faders move all ADSR parameters at the same time not independently. My keyboard transmits all controls on a single transmit channel which may be the issue.
So, if your Yamaha sends out all the control data on a single MIDI channel, then my above mentioned workaround obviously won't work, sorry. But if all of the sliders are sending out CC7 and they all do it on the same channel, then I am afraid there is no way to solve this problem.
There would be one workaround, but I am afraid, it would be even more clumsy than the last one.
You could still set up the MIDI table in Diva and the eight Cubase channels in the same way as mentioned in my above post. But you would not need to use the Cubase Input Transformer.
And instead of setting all eight channels to 'record enable', you would only record-enable one channel at a time. This way you could control each envelope parameter with CC7 individually, but it would involve clicking with the mouse on the channel every time you want to change one of the envelope parameters, making this very cumbersome.
That QA guy from planet u-he.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Thanks for your help. I think Yamaha has 'some splaining' to do. Why do other midi controllers not face this challenge?
What if the Montage channel could be set to ALL or any? what do you think would happen?
What if the Montage channel could be set to ALL or any? what do you think would happen?
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tasmaniandevil tasmaniandevil https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=62450
- KVRAF
- 2176 posts since 22 Mar, 2005 from a planet called u-he
Hi again,
I had a quick look at the Montage manual. Setting up zones with different MIDI channels and assigning one of the CC7 sliders to each zone sounds like it might work. But I have no experience with the Yamaha keyboards, and without such a keyboard in front of me, it’s very hard to be sure. Maybe you could set up such a zone template in the keyboard and test if it works?
It also looks like one can change the CC number for most of the knobs when setting up such templates. But from checking the Yamahasynth.com forums, it looks like it’s not possible to change the CC for those eight sliders. If this is really the case, then it seems like a really weird design decision and unnecessary limitation. Maybe Yamaha can tell you why they decided to do this.
About your other problem (not being able to use the Diva MIDI learn feature in FL Studio):
You have to assign a port to your input controller (your keyboard), in the MIDI settings of FL Studio’s preferences and in the VST wrapper settings of the plugin.
This doesn’t solve your problem with the CC7 sliders, I know. I just wanted to let you know that it’s possible to use Diva’s MIDI learn feature inside FL Studio.
Sorry that I can’t be more of a help.
I had a quick look at the Montage manual. Setting up zones with different MIDI channels and assigning one of the CC7 sliders to each zone sounds like it might work. But I have no experience with the Yamaha keyboards, and without such a keyboard in front of me, it’s very hard to be sure. Maybe you could set up such a zone template in the keyboard and test if it works?
It also looks like one can change the CC number for most of the knobs when setting up such templates. But from checking the Yamahasynth.com forums, it looks like it’s not possible to change the CC for those eight sliders. If this is really the case, then it seems like a really weird design decision and unnecessary limitation. Maybe Yamaha can tell you why they decided to do this.
About your other problem (not being able to use the Diva MIDI learn feature in FL Studio):
You have to assign a port to your input controller (your keyboard), in the MIDI settings of FL Studio’s preferences and in the VST wrapper settings of the plugin.
This doesn’t solve your problem with the CC7 sliders, I know. I just wanted to let you know that it’s possible to use Diva’s MIDI learn feature inside FL Studio.
Sorry that I can’t be more of a help.
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That QA guy from planet u-he.
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- KVRAF
- 4141 posts since 11 Aug, 2006 from Texas
melodyz, piz makes a few plugins that lets you modify a MIDI signal. You could use them to convert them all to the same midi channel but different CC values.
http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi
I don't know if both your hosts support MIDI vsts but I can say they work great with Reaper.
http://thepiz.org/plugins/?p=pizmidi
I don't know if both your hosts support MIDI vsts but I can say they work great with Reaper.
Feel free to call me Brian.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 784 posts since 29 Mar, 2016
Everyone has been a great help. Will I get it working properly. Well see. I am using Fl studio which seems to circumvent the fader issue. Not really sure how since Montage is only transmitting on 1 channel with the same midi cc for faders. The port thing in FL studio worked!
I tried adding a zone with a different channel and it acted like there is only 1 zone and all assigned faders move with the same control like before. Whoops. Yamaha needs to reexamine this thing as assigning controls in Cubase just will not work.
I will also check out those midi tools they look interesting. I dont even know how to change the midi cc on the montage for different things. Maybe this software will work.
Something that is cool is you can play a vsti softsynth as a performance part with 7 other Montage instruments. Part 1 is the controller for the software hookup to the computer. I have never seen that before. Just thought everyone should know that.
I tried adding a zone with a different channel and it acted like there is only 1 zone and all assigned faders move with the same control like before. Whoops. Yamaha needs to reexamine this thing as assigning controls in Cubase just will not work.
I will also check out those midi tools they look interesting. I dont even know how to change the midi cc on the montage for different things. Maybe this software will work.
Something that is cool is you can play a vsti softsynth as a performance part with 7 other Montage instruments. Part 1 is the controller for the software hookup to the computer. I have never seen that before. Just thought everyone should know that.