Can we sell or transfer a Mulab or Mux user key ?

[pquenin]

It's all in the topic title...

[mladi]

No, they are personal and not transferrable afaik.

[MuTools]

Indeed. Cfr http://www.mutools.com/info/docs/common ... swers.html

[pquenin]

OK, that's fine... just wanted to know...

[sl23]

I feel that's very capitalistic. I mean, I can sell my car, my home, my TV, my hardware synth's even my clothes. Why exactly should software be any different?

So if I had a hardware synth/controller requiring a dongle am I not able to sell it on?

Just because a product is software only, dev''s make their own rules to suit themselves. It's obviously about self preservation by forcing new customers to purchase new products and therefore the sales go to the dev alone.

Imagine if car manufacturers applied that same logic! Or for that matter every other manufacturer. Imagine the waste. But that's it, it causes a problem in the physical world. Software doesn't so people think it OK to apply there selfish rules. Sorry but there is only one reason for it and that is for your own benefit.

Anyone remember the days of Sega and Nintendo trying to stop the sales of second hand cartridges? Ridiculous and selfish is the only way to describe their decision. But yours is no different Jo. It is a sound decision for a business but doesn't inspire good customer relations. But it also affects everyone else indirectly.

Imagine not being able to buy a second hand car, you'd be stuck with a huge cost each time you needed a new one. Enslaving you to paying into for it. And the effect is that you have less money for everything else, including supporting yourself.

Now this is an extreme example but is still valid and illustrates the effect this selfish attitude has on people's lives.

Not that I would ever sell my mulab key, but to be refused the possibility is an infringement of freedom.

Don't get me wrong Jo, I respect you and your work a great deal, but it's things like this that are enslaving the people of this planet. No doubt I'll be mocked, but it won't change that simple fact.

[Michael L]

Differently from sl23, I see MuLab as a "service" business model rather than a "product" model. For example, I have received more than $69 in value from MuLab and thus consider it a fair transaction. I also appreciate the free MuLab updates (like the new 64-bit 7.1.30 for Mac) and free Mux modules that continually appear, plus this forum. The MuLab business model is different from many others, and I prefer it. Also, the MuLab price is so reasonable one won't save much buying second hand, and transferring licences costs time that someone has to pay!

[mladi]

That is very easy: If you don't like the way a dev handle his business don't buy from him. Here is really nothing to discuss about in my eyes.

[whyterabbyt]

I feel that's very capitalistic. I mean, I can sell my car, my home, my TV, my hardware synth's even my clothes. Why exactly should software be any different?

The fact that the clothes, car, home, TV etc come 'as is' without entitlement to fixes, new features, improved versions, and automatic discounts on newer models and other products by the same company etc.

Yet if a software vendor didnt do pretty much most of that, there'd be an outcry.

[sl23]

I feel that's very capitalistic. I mean, I can sell my car, my home, my TV, my hardware synth's even my clothes. Why exactly should software be any different?

The fact that the clothes, car, home, TV etc come 'as is' without entitlement to fixes, new features, improved versions, and automatic discounts on newer models and other products by the same company etc.

Yet if a software vendor didnt do pretty much most of that, there'd be an outcry.

I appreciate your comments and expected the typical attitudes from folk who really can't see the slavery of our system. Hard to make the colours out when you wear rose tinted glasses.

Take a look at the new korg electribe. Shit OS with loads of potential. But free updates as do many hardware synths these days. Are they a service too? No. You delude yourself with this 'service' attitude. Mulab like every other software is a product. A service is something that is done FOR you. Mulab doesn't make music FOR you. You make the music by the use of a product.

Not to mention that every product has a guarantee for a minimum of one year, so if there are any faults, they must be fixed by so called law.

Like I said, I understand it makes good business sense, but that very statement is a selfish attitude. Any product should be allowed to be sold. If transferring of keys is a problem, then they shouldn't be made out solely to an individual.

BTW, Mulab's key is not a license.
License:
- a legal document giving official permission to do something.

There are no documents. Only a key is given to activate the product.

The reason software products offer discounts for major updates is because the original software is already owned and the update is just that, an updated version of the original product with enhancements. If you take your car, clothes, electronics, etc to be updated, it costs a fraction of the original retail price, so again the argument is invalid.

It really is so sad to see so many people that still don't get it.
Just because people make their own rules, doesn't make them right.

[sl23]

That is very easy: If you don't like the way a dev handle his business don't buy from him. Here is really nothing to discuss about in my eyes.

Very narrow minded attitude. I'm sure you agree with every dev and manufacturers ethics that you've ever bought from then? If you say yes, you'd be a liar.

This ethical disagreance does not affect me. I will never sell my key.

[mladi]

That is very easy: If you don't like the way a dev handle his business don't buy from him. Here is really nothing to discuss about in my eyes.

Very narrow minded attitude. I'm sure you agree with every dev and manufacturers ethics that you've ever bought from then? If you say yes, you'd be a liar.

This ethical disagreance does not affect me. I will never sell my key.

You are right I do not agree with every dev i bought from but in that case i didn't rant in public afterwards: Pretty pointless and unfair in my eyes.

[Zexila]

Not being able to sell (or gift/buy even) MuLab second hand is an issue for me too sincerely.

That is very easy: If you don't like the way a dev handle his business don't buy from him. Here is really nothing to discuss about in my eyes.

Well, not buying from him is what most of the people already do, but giving feedback on things that might attract them, not many do, so for what is worth there's something to gain from discussing things like this.

[sl23]

You are right I do not agree with every dev i bought from but in that case i didn't rant in public afterwards: Pretty pointless and unfair in my eyes.

I have 'owned' Mulab since v3. So your argument is null and void. I have always praised Jo and his work. I still do. But this is one point that is not only self-centred, meant only in it's literal sense, not it's derogatory definition, but also has an unseen detrimental effect on Jo's customers, however small that may be.

My argument remains valid.

Not being able to sell (or gift/buy even) MuLab second hand is an issue for me too sincerely.

Proof this topic requires discussion.

Just because a products price is low, it does not justify a selfish attitude. Business by it's very nature is selfish, but because we are too accustomed, or rather, conditioned to accept it's wily nature, it's often excused for this attitude. Why can't people see how utterly wrong that is? We are conditioned to accept that it's ok because money is involved. Money has become our god and has made slaves of us all. Crazy? No, just wisdom. Think for yourself.

[dakkra]

There's also the fact that a key can be copied and pasted where a car cannot... I'm just saying.

EDIT: To clarify my meaning: It's too easy to "steal" a key by giving it away but keeping a copy for yourself, essentially doubling the product. You can't double a car, but you can double ASCII, thus it's cost effective to just say no to sharing.

[Zexila]

Well, one thing is sure, now MuLab needs to be quite an "complete" product for me to actually consider getting it because I can't get my money worth from it in his current state. So knowing I'm stuck with it for good it needs to deliver.

Right now I would be pretty much investing my money in a product that will have my crucial for being usable FR's pending for maybe even years (or never come), so yeah, pretty much discouraged to invest in version 7, for what may come in version 9 or never.