"Bass-stealing" sub oscillators in Hive

[Maykie]

There is something about Hive that I cant understand.

Try doing this:

1. Start from init preset
2. Set OSC1 to sawtooth
3. Set OSC2 to triangle
4. Set both oscilators phaisng to reset
5. Try playing low notes to get bass sound
6. Try turning on and off OSC2 and you will hear that triangle gives nice low-end to the sound

- NOW -

6. Turn off OSC2
7. Turn on any of SUBOSC, set same pitch as OSC1 and also set it to triangle
8. Turning on SUBOSC will take away the low end instead of adding it. Why?

I made some analysis:




Whats more wierd - I tried to fix that lack of bass by adding some bost with eq in the sub frequencies but it won't work. It seems like suboscillator is "stealing" all off the low power from the sound leaving it weak.

Should I avoid using suboscillators while making bass patches?

[Gamma-UT]

8. Turning on SUBOSC will take away the low end instead of adding it.

...

Should I avoid using suboscillators while making bass patches?

Phase cancellation. Sub oscillators are normally designed to play in a lower register. The Init patch sets the sub to be an octave lower than its host oscillator where it seems to work fine - pushing it up to match the pitch of that oscillator isn't a great idea.

[Maykie]

Ok now I see in oscilloscope the difference in phase. But I dont know why its set to be different from normal oscillator

[Howard]

Interesting!

(BTW you could try Constant -> Phase... IIRC only the main oscillator gets phase-shifted, not the sub)

[mcnoone]

You can also try adjusting the individual volume knobs of the oscillator/sub combinations.
For example. If you have a saw waveform on osc1 and a sine wave on the sub, and you want the sine to get that bass tone. Try lowering the osc1 volume, and then adjust the sub volume to listen for the bass to tune in better. Use the phase control in the matrix part too as Howard suggested.

I rather like the behavior as it has more tone variation potentials when the phase effects the overall sound that way. So you can go from thin to thick just by making small adjustments.