Sylenth1 clone in mux

[sl23]

Ok, fair enough. I was rather inclined to "something easier than MUX" anyway, rather than an exact Sylenth1 clone. Just saying that it has a reason why it has become so popular, and that's the simplicity appeal.

I liked your points. Points I should've made, but, tbh, didn't feel worth making since I'd been slammed before the get-go. I do understand why Jo doesn't want to, time + tech reasons and probably moral reasons too, but if you want to stay in business you need to be competitive Jo. MuSynth is great, but it doesn't have 40,000 presets that Sylenth has. Some users prefer presets to sound design.

And Jo, on a more personal note, don't judge what I say by how it's written, stay objective and just read the content as is I truly mean no offence, never have. Trouble with forums, sms, facebook, etc, is that text can all too easily be misconstrued with the tonal variations of speech. But that applies to all, not just you, so don't take it personally.

[Touch The Universe]

Just one question....why ?
P.S
another question,
why would you want to when you are going to buy a license for Sylenth anyway ?

Do it, see if it's possible. If so, add a full blown modulation matrix, more oscillators, wavetable import. Call it a day

[sl23]

Fair enough that some argue that MUX is much more useful to THEM, but, and, that's a big but(t), the appeal of Sylenth, and likes, is, that it is a fairly simple and simple to use synth

...so replicating it in MUX as per the thread title would be somewhat of an odd step for that audience.

No. Not really. Because those that weren't ok with the modular area could simply use synths and effects that have been prebuilt, without needing to delve deeper into the mux. A Sylenth.mux would be useful if it could load Sylenth fxb/fxp. For THOSE people, having a massive library of presets at a cheaper price than Sylenth is a massive draw to the world of MuTools.

The clone doesn't need to sound EXACTLY like the original, as stated elsewhere, mux sounds better. So Imagine Sylenth presets loaded into a mux synth that different/better! It's not about emulating Sylenth, that's a whole new ball game. Just a mux that includes all the parameters of Sylenth, sounds good and can load it's presets would be enough to draw people closer to MT.

Another possibility, forget Sylenth, just allow create any synth with general most common parameters and allow loading of ANY fxb/fxp. I don't know the tech side, so I admit this is probably not possible. But as far as parameters go, those included in the mux would be used while those not available are ignored. Look, I'm just trying to help Jo boost business, so don't go shitting on me!

The MuSynth VST is a good idea, maybe allow that to load presets of other synths? Is that worth looking into? From what little I know about fxb's, isn't it a standard of some kind? Meaning the same language used for all? Meaning, it's just a matter of reading the file and discarding unused data? I understand it's probably not that simple, but I'd be interested to know why

-^-

[sl23]

Just one question....why ?
P.S
another question,
why would you want to when you are going to buy a license for Sylenth anyway ?

Do it, see if it's possible. If so, add a full blown modulation matrix, more oscillators, wavetable import. Call it a day

I would if I could but I can't
Doesn't have to a perfect clone, never expected it to be, just a mux version.

[MuTools]

And Jo, on a more personal note, don't judge what I say by how it's written, stay objective and just read the content as is I truly mean no offence, never have. Trouble with forums, sms, facebook, etc, is that text can all too easily be misconstrued with the tonal variations of speech. But that applies to all, not just you, so don't take it personally.

Good communication is not only a responsibility of the receiver, it also is a responsibility of the sender. Not always easy, i know.

[Zexila]

To be more concrete: It's not about MuSynth in its current form, but it's about MuSynth in a (typical) semi-modular form. That's a much more accessible/popular form than a pure modular form, indeed.

Majority of musicians and casual preset tweakers just don't get into majority of 7 headed beasts synths, but instead into likes of Sylenth&co, because simple is great, going complex route isn't the best deal to attract the same, but hey.

[pljones]

Fxb is a standard preset used in many VST's.

Unless you start looking inside an FXB, you do not know what its content is. It's just a bunch of meaningless bytes. "Knowing" the meaning is potentially commercially sensitive, so you're risking litigation if you try to make money out of gaining that knowledge without the original developer's permission.

[sl23]

Fxb is a standard preset used in many VST's.

Unless you start looking inside an FXB, you do not know what its content is. It's just a bunch of meaningless bytes. "Knowing" the meaning is potentially commercially sensitive, so you're risking litigation if you try to make money out of gaining that knowledge without the original developer's permission.

If that's the case then how does ReactOS get away with cloning windows?
Isn't that how companies advance tech released by others?
It's called reverse engineering. Is that illegal? If it is, then surely most of the electronic goods available are illegal!
Everything is built on what has gone before. How can it be otherwise? It's extremely rare for completely new ideas that have no influence of the past in any shape or form to rear their heads. I realise my example here is OTT, but it implies the fact that you're always building on preconfigured ideas.

If you make a wheel and patent it, no one else can legally make it. But if you redesign it and make it your way and prove you designed and made it your way, no one can stop you selling it legally.

[pljones]

You try building a CPU that runs like the chip inside your phone and you'll discover that the company that sells the intellectual property to chip makers will not be happy with you. Like many forms of intellectual property, of course, there's a life span of cover and, of course, many things were invented before some bright spark decided to get intellectual property law going. Life's just like that.

If you make a wheel and patent it, no one else can legally make it. But if you redesign it and make it your way and prove you designed and made it your way, no one can stop you selling it legally.

Fundamentally incorrect. If you take the design of a wheel and use it in your "new" design, then you have a derivative design and you are infringing patent. If you believe you are not infringing patent and the original owner thinks you are, you risk litigation.

[whyterabbyt]

Fxb is a standard preset used in many VST's.

Unless you start looking inside an FXB, you do not know what its content is. It's just a bunch of meaningless bytes. "Knowing" the meaning is potentially commercially sensitive, so you're risking litigation if you try to make money out of gaining that knowledge without the original developer's permission.

If that's the case then how does ReactOS get away with cloning windows?
Isn't that how companies advance tech released by others?
It's called reverse engineering. Is that illegal? If it is, then surely most of the electronic goods available are illegal!
Everything is built on what has gone before. How can it be otherwise? It's extremely rare for completely new ideas that have no influence of the past in any shape or form to rear their heads. I realise my example here is OTT, but it implies the fact that you're always building on preconfigured ideas.

If you make a wheel and patent it, no one else can legally make it. But if you redesign it and make it your way and prove you designed and made it your way, no one can stop you selling it legally.

Im afraid you're oversimplifying things here. Its a fairly complex discussion, and there are lots of aspects, technical and legal, to it. You can check out the definition of 'clean room reverse engineering' for a methodology for 'safely' reimplementing, say, the functionality of parts of Windows that would allow something like ReactOS, but you also have to be aware that such protocols wouldnt even slightly help in the case of eg infringement of patents.
The ultimate arbiter of whether you can do things like this is whether you get away with doing things like this. Lawsuits from bigger companies are not an incentive, and more than one project has falled foul to objections to reverse engineering. and many companies, from IBM (SCO case) to Google (Oracle/Java case), have had to had to spend huge amounts of money to defend doing such things.

[solipsvs]

oh noes! does jo need help with his get rich strategy? hey this seems kinda like a democracy here in this thread! hey jo do you need my help? i got LOTS of ideas for you jo! wooop! ideas for jo's survival

[sl23]

I do see your points. Thanks for explaining.

[fluffy_little_something]

Seems like a crazy idea I mean, Mutools sell their own synth, why would they emulate a specific other synth? It's like asking BMW to clone a Benz

I suppose the two can sound similar and make similar sounds, with the voice stacking and all, but I don't think the Mux/Mulab synth sounds as good and warm as Sylenth1. To me Mux/Mulab sounds more like Tone2 stuff. And what's more, Sylenth1's user interface is orders better.

[Taifunk]

SL23 forgive me, I do not want hijacking your topic.

Hey, no problem. Personally, I think all that talk of thread hijacking is bollocks, the conversation goes where it goes! Easy enough to bring it back, should I want/need to. Thanks for the apology though, graciously received.

MuSynth is great, but it doesn't have 40,000 presets that Sylenth has. Some users prefer presets to sound design.

Re-reading the entire thread I think this is the point^
The idea about a semi-modular musynth vst It would be a good starting point to achieve this goal,
it is much more attractive than a sylenth clone,at least for me.

[Taifunk]

I suppose the two can sound similar and make similar sounds, with the voice stacking and all, but I don't think the Mux/Mulab synth sounds as good and warm as Sylenth1.

Sylenth sounds very warm but other than that?how it sounds FM in sylenth?
The filters are the only thing that is a little better in Sylenth imo,but surely Jo will continue to improve Mux so I do not worry about that.
Besides this and an absurd amount of presets I see nothing better than Mux in sylenth,
Ok,Sylenth is a great synth,but imo not "the synth" reference in terms of quality.
I gave a deep look at the sylenth preset and most of these use stratagems and too many effects to get things that in mux are native:)
Mux has a very neutral sound that allows to shape the sound as you want,
can do pwm,fm,pm,am,rm,filter fm,wavetable/granular,audio rate everywhere...etc.
it's an excellent tool and especially in terms of sound quality,a paradise for sound design