MVocoder Sidechain not working in Ableton Live

[DarkStar]

Preamble: MeldaProduction plug-ins 'only' go up to 7.1

Anyway, in MeldaProduction plug-ins with sidechain inputs, for every direct input channel there will be a corresponding sidechain input channel. For the normal stereo mode there are 4 channels:
1 Input Left
2 Input Right
3 Sidechain left
4 Sidechain Right

For Surround mode, there are 16 channels:
01..08 Inputs 1..8
09..16 Sidechain Inputs 1..8

You will see that the sidechain inputs always follow the direct inputs. So, if a DAW supports a maximum of 8 channels into a (AU?) plug-in then the plug-in could not receive the sidechain inputs when in Surround mode.

Here's a pic of the channels as they appear on a 16-channel track in Reaper, with the plug-in in Stereo and surround modes:
>>> http://i.imgur.com/iW0PdeZ.png

[wildcafe]

@imadrugdealer: just use the VST version of the plugin (NOT the AU version) and do the steps I've done in the video above.
The AU version will NOT work in Ableton Live properly!

Btw: I've tested other's plugin's sidechains now (au version) and they do work (for example NI effects). So maybe they're not surround capable...or they're doing things different. How can I find that out?

Here's another thing that confuses me: on the other channel where I select the sidechain send, sidechain is channel 3/4 of MVocoder, but it should be 1/2.
See screenshot:

[wildcafe]

aaahh, you mean Ableton sees the Melda plugin as surround plugin, doesn't support more than 8 channels in surround mode and channel 9/10 would be the sidechain (which isn't available as it only supports 8 channels)...?

[DarkStar]

^^^^
That's how I interpret it (I do not know Ableton Live).

The sidechain channels are never 1+2; they come after the main inputs so are 3+4 at the least. So your pic is right (but I'm not sure why the label is 'Side-chain' rather than 'Sidechain' as in my pic.

-----------------------------------
Let's go back a bit.

Looking at your pic suggests that you are running MVocoder in 'normal' L+R mode, NOT using it in Surround mode. is that correct? If so, then MVocoder declares 4 inputs and 2 outputs to the host (As in my smaller pic), input channels 1+2 are the main input (the carrier signal) and 3+4 are for the sidechain (the modulator signal).

If Live support up to 8 channels for the plug-in (AU or VST) then it should work OK.

[wildcafe]

No matter, if I switch between surround mode or L+R mode. Even turning off channels in surround mode to channel 1+2 only doesn't help.
I assume that Melda always automatically declares to the host as a surround plugin. No matter, if itself is in stereo or surround mode. Because otherwise the host maybe couldn't recognize if you switch plugin-internal between the two modes (this is an assumption!).

So the only way to solve this, is making a stereo- and a surround version of the plugins I assume (like the Waves plugins, you have there a mono and stereo version).
This could make sense for those plugins that NEED to have sidechain functionality to get them going (as for the MVocoder for example which is useless without sidechain).
And it could improve cpu performance (because it has to process less channels). I think that's the main reason, why Waves decided to supply a mono and a stereo version of their plugins...

[MeldaProduction]

I didn't read this topic, but I assume you are on OSX using AU MVocoder and wonder why you don't get sidechain, right? Neverending bug in Live - they just don't follow the channel configurations at all and AU provides surround, hence 16in8out. But you can simply use VST, which provides only 4in2out by default (unless you activated surround), so it will work just fine.

[jmg8]

I am having this same issue wondering if anyone can step by step a solution for us?

Did you read the thread?
It might be because your using AU version on the plugin, try VST it works fine.

[Neon Breath]

The strange thing is that I have Zynaptiq Morph 2 and I use the AU as sidechain in Ableton Live and it does perfectly work. Not sure why Melda doesn't...

[Magnut]

The strange thing is that I have Zynaptiq Morph 2 and I use the AU as sidechain in Ableton Live and it does perfectly work. Not sure why Melda doesn't...

That's no secret. It's always the hosts fault Or every other dev does it the wrong way, only Melda does it right. They just need to change the specification for him Other companies try to make their plugins compatible to the hosts, Melda tries to make the hosts compatible to his plugins.
But fun aside that happens too often with Melda plugins. And it's not restricted to only Ableton or FL Studio. But nothing will change. That's life.

[MeldaProduction]

Actually yes, it is the host's fault. And it happens with Melda "too often", because tell me which plugins you own support surround? None? Most likely . So thank you for your input Magnut .

So again, classic Live's bug - it doesn't understand buses, it just takes 4in2out and thinks "aaaha, so 2in 2sidechain 2out easy. But our plugins are 8in8out and unlike all other hosts, which also ask the plugin how many per bus, Live just doesn't care, and thinks 2in 2sidechain 2something 2something 8whocares 2out 6whocares . That's why we have VST reporting 4in2out by default. Ableton Live is probably the only malfunctioning host out there anymore I'm aware of fortunately.

[DarkStar]

The strange thing is that I have Zynaptiq Morph 2 and I use the AU as sidechain in Ableton Live and it does perfectly work. Not sure why Melda doesn't...

As far as I can see that plug-in is not surround (Multichannel)-capable

AU: dual mono (MORPH), stereo with stereo side-chain (MORPH SC)

So I think that it would declare its 4 input channels to Live, 2 main and 2 sidechain, and all is well.

---------------------
General question 1: In Live, what advantages do AU plug-ins (nor just MeldaProduction) have over VST editions?

General question 2: has Ableton made an comment about this issue, in general

[MeldaProduction]

GQ1: None really. On the contrary, if VST works well, it requires less CPU usually, a little.

GQ2: Yes, sort of - they basically said they know it is a bit of a problem, but that's how it is .

[Neon Breath]

Actually yes, it is the host's fault. And it happens with Melda "too often", because tell me which plugins you own support surround? None? Most likely . So thank you for your input Magnut .

So again, classic Live's bug - it doesn't understand buses, it just takes 4in2out and thinks "aaaha, so 2in 2sidechain 2out easy. But our plugins are 8in8out and unlike all other hosts, which also ask the plugin how many per bus, Live just doesn't care, and thinks 2in 2sidechain 2something 2something 8whocares 2out 6whocares . That's why we have VST reporting 4in2out by default. Ableton Live is probably the only malfunctioning host out there anymore I'm aware of fortunately.

Thanks for the clarification and info!