Diva...the Test of Time...

[VitaminD]

i swear it's like anyone who praises it has used nothing else but some junk SynthEdit plug-ins or Reaktor UL synths from 2005.

And another room full of synths:



It goes parallel with the Modular and the Sub37...head to head.

ah can I stop by and jam? Victory Blvd?

[AnX]

All uhe stuff is is a bit too unconventional for me.

We explore different paradigms in different plug-ins. It requires getting yourself involved with it, rather than doing what you always do. It's based on the idea that challenge is good for original ideas and routine is not.

Yeah that doesnt work here. I dont want to be fighting with a synth to write a song. It needs to flow.

[stardustmedia]

Ouside of KVR and gearslutz very few people go beyond Arturia and NI, Arturia is the one highly over rated.

I like Arturia. Diva doesn't replace them. Both are still used regularly since years in my studio. It's not only me, but also my customers like the sound of both.

[Urs]

All uhe stuff is is a bit too unconventional for me.

We explore different paradigms in different plug-ins. It requires getting yourself involved with it, rather than doing what you always do. It's based on the idea that challenge is good for original ideas and routine is not.

Yeah that doesnt work here. I dont want to be fighting with a synth to write a song. It needs to flow.

Speaking of flow. Check out the Flow Principle. "easy" does not get you there and neither does "tedious". Our stuff is designed to be neither "easy" nor "tedious". There's surely room for improvement, there always is, but then, that's what we're doing all the time - our stuff evolves with input from the people out there. It seems to me you're confusing flow with easy, which might be a mindset that's based on recipe and repetition. I believe that creativity is best paired with mindsets based on exploration and curiosity. Our stuff invites for exploration, that's pretty much been my mission statement since day one. But I digress.

I'm not sure what your references are, but the *conventional* stuff I see either neglects the transformation from reality to software, or it was designed by marketing people, not designers. I only see tab-monsters and window-spillers with similar feature sets to our stuff (tedious), or one trick ponys with similar accessibility (easy and utterly conventional). Good designs are very rare and hardly ever conventional.

[RedChameau]

Yep ! Neither Nexus nor Reaktor (Reaktor "programming" that is).

Anyway, who needs a troll debate about whether Diva is overrated or not ? (informed critics, global sales, famous guys' adoption already provided an answer for that).

No, what we all really need is mooaaaar tone generation & sculpting modules for the beast before we get bored damnit !

[AnX]

All uhe stuff is is a bit too unconventional for me.

We explore different paradigms in different plug-ins. It requires getting yourself involved with it, rather than doing what you always do. It's based on the idea that challenge is good for original ideas and routine is not.

Yeah that doesnt work here. I dont want to be fighting with a synth to write a song. It needs to flow.

Speaking of flow. Check out the Flow Principle. "easy" does not get you there and neither does "tedious". Our stuff is designed to be neither "easy" nor "tedious". There's surely room for improvement, there always is, but then, that's what we're doing all the time - our stuff evolves with input from the people out there. It seems to me you're confusing flow with easy, which might be a mindset that's based on recipe and repetition. I believe that creativity is best paired with mindsets based on exploration and curiosity. Our stuff invites for exploration, that's pretty much been my mission statement since day one. But I digress.

I'm not sure what your references are, but the *conventional* stuff I see either neglects the transformation from reality to software, or it was designed by marketing people, not designers. I only see tab-monsters and window-spillers with similar feature sets to our stuff (tedious), or one trick ponys with similar accessibility (easy and utterly conventional). Good designs are very rare and hardly ever conventional.

Everything is easy if you learn how to use it. If its tedious, it doesnt get used. Thats not creative. I just dont get inspired by uhe stuff. I find the implimentaion of certain things counter creative. Like i said, you cant please everyone. Its no big deal for me. I have other tools. Many other ppl are happy with uhe stuff.

[gentleclockdivider]

it's not nearly as good as everyone makes it out to be.

That's the curse of having no competition. Can't really comapre Diva to Repro, can't really comapre her to any other emulation, can't really compare her to anything. You can either like her or not.

(one reason we never do sales revisited: People buy things they don't like...)

You mean no competition because of the semi modular nature of diva or because of the sound quality ?
If the latter , I think some plugins have surpassed diva when it comes to pure emulation .
Personally I prefer tal uno x over diva Juno filter/osc's .
Same with synapse legend over diva and reaktor's sallen key over diva's ms 20 mode .
Still diva is a fantastic all rounder

[Urs]

You mean no competition because of the semi modular nature of diva or because of the sound quality ?

What I mean is, there's no similarly modular synth with a mix & match approach. There's a handful of synths that have equal quality, maybe slightly better even, but they only ever model a single synth.

I would have expected that Diva's success would inspire a lot of these synths, but obviously it's still very difficult to get to that level, other than maybe in very simple configurations.

Repro-1 otoh is a quantum leap ahead of Diva in terms of filter modelling detail, and I don't think I've heard anything like it in other products. While I have got models of almost all of Diva's filter types in that quality, I haven't had time to put them in and calibrate. Can't wait to do this.

[BasariStudios]

ah can I stop by and jam? Victory Blvd?

Anytime...if you are not some psycho and murder me...and then be all over the news...

[zerocrossing]

(just bought 'Diva' again last night. owned it a few years ago, and have been using a demo version on and off since i sold it. always comparing it to other synths to see if i'm just "not getting it" or what. my feelings haven't changed too much. ... not sure how old the demo version was that i had installed, but one thing i noticed when installing it last night is that the current version actually looks a lot worse now. didn't think that was possible, but they "updated" a lot of the graphic elements and i sure don't think they're any sort of improvement. really surprised when i fired it up last night. thankfully, we now have the Volta and AIKO skins for it. if not, i wouldn't have even bought it again.)

i'll try to explain in more detail later, but i still think 'Diva' is so over-rated in some ways that it's almost like an industry in-joke. i swear it's like anyone who praises it has used nothing else but some junk SynthEdit plug-ins or Reaktor UL synths from 2005. it's very good (sometimes even great), but it's not nearly as good as everyone makes it out to be. it gets brought up again and again and again as pretty much the only synth worth buying/using, which i think is laughable. it has MANY strengths, but i also think it has many faults.

that said, as far as analog emulation i think 'Repro-1' is probably (overall) the best synth i've ever used.

I'm with you. It's good... but there has always been something about it... the way it sums voices. Maybe it has to do with how it distorts internally... but it can sometimes sound somewhat grainy and kind of indistinct. Especially if you're using the Moog 3 osc module and you're throwing a lot of current at the filter. I notice that when I use Legend, I don't get that at all. If you compare what actual analogs sound like when doing filter FM and how Diva sounds... it's not there. Kind of dull. Osc sync and feedback don't sound quite right to me either.

Add to that an interface that totally bugs me when dealing with modulation and I found myself going to Zebra/ZebraHZ for complex sounds and hardware analogs for simpler sounds. I sold it. I don't really miss it. That said, the gear that partially replaced it is a lot more expensive and not nearly as versatile. My Prophet 6 was $1650 and my dual Tetra set up was $1000. To me it's worth it, but I could see that to many it would not. The software that replaced it has a higher CPU hit... or made by U-He. Or, when I get RePro-1 today, both. When I do need a virtual analog polyphonic software plug in, I usually end up using something from XILS.

But, don't take this as me being anti-Diva. If I were forced into a totally ITB set up, it would be in my arsenal, no doubt. I'd totally have a look at it again in the future if I have to downsize.

[Urs]

I'm with you. It's good... but there has always been something about it... the way it sums voices. Maybe it has to do with how it distorts internally... but it can sometimes sound somewhat grainy and kind of indistinct.

Sorry, but that's utter bullshit. Like the guy in the other forum who says his Pro-One somehow sounds "harder and more cutting-through".

think I've understood that you don't like her on the day she was released. I find the need to reiterate it over and over in by what must now be well over 100 posts a tad annoying, and I can hardly not take offense.

[RedChameau]

I haven't had time to put them in and calibrate. Can't wait to do this.

Now That's what I mean !




Then go and hatch out those damn filters

I guess Fanbois and haters kicking each others asses is just an obligatory step you'll unfortunately have to deal with.

[Urs]

Then go and hatch out those damn filters

Problem is, the main difference will be slightly lower CPU load. The haters will still hate, because the choice of modules in Diva is what it is. Jupiters, Junos and Minis don't suddenly sound better (for them: grittier, rougher, rawer) only because we use better models. To the contrary, I think the updated models will sound even more mellow, beautiful and - to them - boring.

[BasariStudios]

What a can of worms i opened and i love it...Diva i mean.

[RedChameau]

I think the updated models will sound even more mellow, beautiful and - to them - boring.

Yeah some people just want to watch the world burn.

But soooo many others just want to give you their money at the expense of feeding their own children,
and we all know they're doing the right thing !

Wait what ?

Anyway and at the risk of belaboring the point, best way to celebrate Diva is an update