Diva...the Test of Time...

[elxsound]

I will add this... I just picked up Diva after demoing quite a few options well over a year. I actually think it is one of the easiest synths to just play. There's plenty of tools under the hood, but its a pretty damn simple synth on the surface (which is a masterful stoke of genius).

I did try Repro-1 and it is also amazing, but Diva is going to be my workhorse.

[zerocrossing]

All uhe stuff is is a bit too unconventional for me.

We explore different paradigms in different plug-ins. It requires getting yourself involved with it, rather than doing what you always do. It's based on the idea that challenge is good for original ideas and routine is not.

Yeah that doesnt work here. I dont want to be fighting with a synth to write a song. It needs to flow.

Speaking of flow. Check out the Flow Principle. "easy" does not get you there and neither does "tedious". Our stuff is designed to be neither "easy" nor "tedious". There's surely room for improvement, there always is, but then, that's what we're doing all the time - our stuff evolves with input from the people out there. It seems to me you're confusing flow with easy, which might be a mindset that's based on recipe and repetition. I believe that creativity is best paired with mindsets based on exploration and curiosity. Our stuff invites for exploration, that's pretty much been my mission statement since day one. But I digress.

I'm not sure what your references are, but the *conventional* stuff I see either neglects the transformation from reality to software, or it was designed by marketing people, not designers. I only see tab-monsters and window-spillers with similar feature sets to our stuff (tedious), or one trick ponys with similar accessibility (easy and utterly conventional). Good designs are very rare and hardly ever conventional.

Without going too deep into UX/UI design, I'll say that in my experience Diva has two major issues in that respect. One is that there are too many different styles of things like buttons and some don't read well. The rocker switches are especially hard to read in terms of their current state. Some buttons are lights. Some buttons look like information displays. Some triangles. Picking a visual language and sticking to it is really useful for readability. Second, the tab structure of the bottom pane is a hot mess. Elements are just sort of crammed in there with no regard to any sort of function hierarchy. While keeping the LFO section visible at all times is good, I think you could lose the effects area and make it it's own tab. Replace the patch browser button and put it up near the patch display/button. I'm personally a fan of a very clear mod matrix style for modifications.



It's ugly, but clear. I think it's fine if you abandon the hardware skeuomorphic look totally when doing something like a mod matrix or even the effects. Not sure about the LFO section... Arturia seems to do a good job of it in some of their new UIs.

[Urs]

You need a reality check man...

[jbuonacc]

... think I've understood that you don't like her on the day she was released. I find the need to reiterate it over and over in by what must now be well over 100 posts a tad annoying, and I can hardly not take offense.

hehe, this is what i was afraid of... i know you were talking to zerocrossing, but i'm sure that i come off the same myself in some ways in my open criticism and curiosity at the popularity of Diva. is this why i still haven't received my serial number after submitting the registration code days ago?

i'll get back to this thread later when i have more time to explain, if only because i think it's pretty interesting as to the possible reasons of why i'm not a totally devoted fan of Diva. logically, i should be. i don't find the synths that it's based on "boring" at all. i'm not into the looks of it, but that's no longer an issue for me. i'm continually surprised by what is possible with it, having realizations of "damn, that's really cool" whenever i use it. i originally bought it because it was too good of a deal to pass up, but this time i made sure that it was something that i was going to invest some time into and get to know it. i wouldn't have bought it again if i just plain "didn't like it", and i was set on doing so even before the recent sale was announced (this just made it possible to buy it sooner than i had expected).

i also find it pretty interesting that so many people are such big fans of Diva (some of them seemingly happy using only that for all their "analog synth" needs), and the reasons behind why this is. i think its popularity is pretty astounding, and i have some thoughts on why this is. not all of them might be welcomed or appreciated, but i don't see much harm in discussing them.

either way, i think it's worth talking about if people don't get too emotional about it (why would they?). one-sided fanboy love-fests are generally a bit boring. i'm pretty critical of some of my favorite things (bands, synths, whatever) and don't see much harm in thinking about or discussing the less-than-favorable aspects of each. doesn't mean that i like them any less.


EDIT: lol @ zerocrossing with the usual UX/UI critique. classic.

[Urs]

is this why i still haven't received my serial number after submitting the registration code days ago?

Nope, but maybe you have a Comcast address? They notoriously block our registration emails...

[Urs]

EDIT: lol @ zerocrossing with the usual UX/UI critique. classic.

Since when is waste of screen estate an example for good UI design

Dunning-Kruger maybe?

[jbuonacc]

... maybe you have a Comcast address? They notoriously block our registration emails...

no, to the Comcast address. i submitted it through your website. no hurry, i've been using a demo version for a couple years now, i can wait a few more days. i'll contact support.

thanks for the reply!

EDIT: lol @ zerocrossing with the usual UX/UI critique. classic.

Since when is waste of screen estate an example for good UI design

Dunning-Kruger maybe?

you'll have to ask him about that, he's the UX/UI expert.

[zerocrossing]

You need a reality check man...

I guess so. Those in total agreement with you are obviously the only ones who have a grip on reality. This doesn't explain the things I think that are great about Diva and other U-He plug ins, so it's going to take some work to wrap my head around that.

If you actually read posts by me (here and elsewhere, don't waste your time though) I'm nearly always recommending Diva and other U-he plug ins when they make sense in terms of the thread and I'll only criticise them when it's appropriate, like in the implied question that's the title of this thread. I just must have some sort of brain injury that causes me to not think that every aspect of them is beyond criticism.

Disregard the UI stuff too. I've only been making a living doing it for 10 years (before that, tack on another 10 in graphic/multimedia design) for companies like EA and Lucasarts. I must have some amazing ability to fool all my clients. I hope I don't lose my knack! The cost of living here is ridiculous!

Carry on! Diva is perfect!

[Urs]

Sorry man, but the example you posted is just ridiculous. With that kind of knob density we'll need 10 tabs to cramp Diva's main parameters in. And don't get me started about font size and contrast. Or those fiddly little switches. Got take mouse pointing lessons for those.

As for sound, I just fired up Diva next to that other Minimoog emulation. I don't get why people would rate Diva's audio rate modulation, bottom end or just about anything inferior. Confirmation bias? If anything, the other emulation is more tame and sterile sounding. Kind of well behaved.

Don't get why anyone with so many "it's-good-but"s would recommend Diva to anyone.

[e@rs]

Urs, please upgrade the knobs for Mini and MS modules! They look blurry. The Jupiter and JP are cool, no complains there.

[zerocrossing]

EDIT: lol @ zerocrossing with the usual UX/UI critique. classic.

Since when is waste of screen estate an example for good UI design

Dunning-Kruger maybe?

When UI elements are closely crammed together with no visual distinction as to how they relate to each other.

For instance, look at the Modifications tab. Read the text "FM & Cross Mod Depth." It reads as a single sentence because the Depth knob control is crammed too close to the modifier dropdown menu button. If I had one of my designers submit that to me I'd send them right back to it. Rookie mistake. Also, there's tons of room so I have no idea what the point of cramming them so close together could be in that context.

Also, FM and Cross Mod of what to what? You might say that this "invites experimentation" but to me it's just unclear. If I have Dual VCO Eco selected it's easy to wonder why it's not doing anything. I know, RTFM, but for a feature that simple it could be clear. Yeah, the "M" symbol (that's not a button but looks like one, as opposed to the modulation source button that doesn't look like one yet is) tells you after you set it up, but that's what I call an ugly hack. Don't even start on the Modulation processors. You really don't think that a modulation matrix with a "source-source-modifier-mix-destination" style interface wouldn't be more clear? I could start a whole thread about how bad ArcSyn's UI is in other ways (god it's ugly), but it's mod matrix is flexible, clear and easy to use.

But, have fun attacking me. Remember though, the Dunning–Kruger effect cuts both ways and neither of us could know if we're the one's who are wrong. Maybe we both suck at UI/UX design! I've had a good amount of success doing UI design and I've studied it both academically a by spending hundreds of hours watching people interact with computer interfaces.

Also, ask yourself this: If I'm "bullshit[ing]" about the Filter FM in Diva, how could I be also wrong about the fact that I think you nail it in RePro-1? Must be part of my reality distortion.

[Urs]

How's filter FM different between Diva and Repro-1? Other than Repro-1 naturally having a wider range than Diva/Monark/Legend?

(won't comment UI niggles)

[zerocrossing]

Don't get why anyone with so many "it's-good-but"s would recommend Diva to anyone.

Not all of us live in a world of absolutes. I find no issue with saying "If you're looking for a VA plug in, buy Diva. It has some issues but it's great in many ways."

I don't expect everything to be perfect, but I'm also not going to not voice my opinion when asked for it on a public forum. Obviously I'm not the only one who's come to these conclusions, yet it seems like you've set your sights on me to attack.

All I really said is that for basic analog poly style sounds I prefer to use analog hardware and for higher complex styles of sounds I prefer Zebra. If that's your worst criticism, you're a lucky man.

[zerocrossing]

How's filter FM different between Diva and Repro-1? Other than Repro-1 naturally having a wider range than Diva/Monark/Legend?

(won't comment UI niggles)

Has a troll hacked into your account? Urs, are you in there?!

I'm done here, I've got crap to do, but maybe you should... listen to it? Or not. Cheerio!

[murnau]

I admire your patience Urs.