Diva...the Test of Time...

[jbuonacc]

... Maybe my copy needed service?

nah, you just need to give it a little push. i used to think that the filter FM was pretty weak myself, until i played around with it a bit more.

https://soundcloud.com/jbuonacc/diva-flter-fm

[murnau]

@zerocrossing

Checked your portfolio as you thought it would be a good idea to mention your work a few pages back. Jesus are you serious? I can't even believe you dare to make comments on other people work with that piece of crappy designs. Get a life.

Now on the other side it all makes totally sense of course..

[zerocrossing]

... Maybe my copy needed service?

nah, you just need to give it a little push. i used to think that the filter FM was pretty weak myself, until i played around with it a bit more.

https://soundcloud.com/jbuonacc/diva-flter-fm

Still sounds a bit dead to me. What are you doing to "push" it? I don't remember how hot my osc level was, but I bet I had it cranked up. I might still have the library file, I'll have to look at it.

But it's not that big of a deal. The reason it's become a big deal isn't because I bring it up every now and then when talking about Diva's merits and flaws, it's because Urs acted like I called his child ugly. A simple, "to get the polyphony we wanted we couldn't do the type of processing that would be needed to approach an actual analog in that situation." Or similar words and it would be over. The funny part of all this is the type of thing I'm taking about actually probably doesn't affect many people at all in the way they use a synth. So... Brushing it off as a a technical limit would have ended the topic. Instead, we're going on and on about it and I'm being forced to defend my opinion. Urs is right on one thing. I'm just some idiot who came from some corner of the internet. I dared to question the mighty Urz and now I'm in big trouble. Don't question the mighty Urz or you'll find yourself chased out of the Emerald City by flying monkeys.

[Garzita]

Nah, you are not in trouble... But work on your examples and maybe we could see your point?

[AnX]

My problem is, people just pop out from some corner of the internet and state things. Like the guy recently who just like this said: "Diva cuts bass out more than synth xy". And then I take that on, get a bit worried and try it for myself. So I waste 25 minutes of my time inhaling the criticism, firing up both synths, measuring the bass cut, only to find that the opposite is true. Then I post screenshots that show my findings. Then the guy says "You can post as many nice charts as you want, but my ears tell the opposite".

These things come up much like people sneeze. It's the sudden achoo from somewhere around the globe, and poof there's a nonsense claim on a forum.

It's the relation between the work that was done to create the software and the hand-waving ease it takes to put out some trumpety misinformation. The appropriate German saying is "I think I am in the wrong movie", as if, people talk about something else. Of course they don't have audio examples. They never do. They also don't have UI examples. None that ever work.

It happens a lot lately. Very depressing.

Maybe you need to chill out more. You cant force ppl to like stuff. Some ppl give good reasons, some ppl make stuff up cos they dont know what they are talking about.

I dont have a problem with the sound, just the way some stuff works. Im clearly in the minority (unless every user is a preset whore) so like i said, no big deal. Its not personal.

[stardustmedia]

Make of it as you will. It's surely not scientifically meaningful, but it shows that Diva has a somewhat muted character. I thought of the software examples, Monark did best. Legend and Repro-1 didn't exist yet, but I'd put them right up there with the hardware.

I'd also say that Diva sounds "muted", especially when directly compared to other synths. But in a positive way. For instance Monark is for me way too "boosted" and "too loud". Diva can blend in way more often into a song, but I go for another synth when I need loud and screamy.

Such differences you will also find when comparing real analog (vintage) synths. You gotta choose the synth that suits best to your style.

[Urs]

There's two possible (technical) issues I see with Diva when comparing to stuff that came out later:

- FilterFM has no DC offset (unlike Minimoogs)
- Filter cutoff is constrained to 20kHz

Former was a necessity attributed to Diva's concept, but maybe some we can drop in a future version.

Latter might explain why someone might find Diva to sound muted. With a 12dB attenuation at 20kHz, there's always some lowpass filtering in the audible range. In comparison, Repro-1 closes at 35kHz, so the audible range isn't attenuated with the filter fully open.

We did this because it was common, because it saved CPU and because our two reference Moog Filters closed at about 16kHz and 20-something respectively. It's a realistic setting, but maybe not one that's for everyone. OTOH maybe it's for more people than the other way round?

Furthermore, certainly, Diva is more complex than any Minimoog emulation. The roles of oscillators are swapped. The knob ranges have been fit into a skeleton that works for all models. It's more work to compare Diva to a Minimoog (or a clone thereof) than comparing any of the Minimoog emulations to one or among each other. There's no question about that.

While these may be disadvantages for a 1:1 comparison of Diva and Minimoogs, it would be cherry picking to reduce Diva to just that. No UI and no algorithm can ever change that - Diva is a lot more than just a Minimoog emulation and thus not as easily compared to a Minimoog as an actual emulation. On the other hand, one can't even begin to compare a Minimoog emulation to Diva in her entirety.

[andresnol]

pretty funny how most kvr users who voted on the repro alpha filter poll, chose the cheapest, most muted (lowpassed?) filter as the most analogue sounding (the poll results changed a bit later when the filter algorithms were unveiled) . any guilty ones here?

[Urs]

By "that other Minimoog emulation" do you mean The Legend or Monark ?

Look, I don't want to piss anyone off. It's the curse of "being me" that I can't voice my opinion unless it's a good one (or unless it's a company that thinks Howard and I are supremacist Nazis anyway, I won't tell you which one that is)

So, to clear this up amicably: It was neither The Legend nor Monark nor any other Minimoog emulation.

There. I lied. You made me

Thing is, I think both Legend and Monark are great and they're yet another step further towards realistic Minimoog emulations than Diva. But that doesn't suddenly push Diva back down on the same level as previous attempts. I think that Legend sounds more realistic while Monark has been modeled in more detail. By "realistic" I mean a common denominator of the Minimoog sound, if that exists.

While Diva may sound less realistic than Legend to me and while she's definitely a less detailed emulation than Monark, I don't think the harsh judegement she sometimes gets is warranted. I think much of that isn't always based on facts, but on the belief that something newer is inherently better. Being "in" is a bonus that automatically renders its predecessors "out".

This describes an inherent property of "fashion". The good thing about good software is continuous development though. It can crack "fashion". We've done it before and I'm determined to do it again.

[Tony Ostinato]

i use diva live at a 64 samples buffer, tho i am using an earlier revision because at some point they started glitching for me.

people always applaud for it regardless of how lame a solo i play on it. the other night i grabbed a basic moog sound and they just spontaneously started cheering it.

my only gripe with it and also hive is the way the midi bank cant be edited/saved without restarting. programming my midi bank always takes way longer than on any other companys plugins.

the best setup was albino3 where you could just overwrite the patch and be done, and each instance could be aimed at its own folder.

[e@rs]

Urs, please upgrade the knobs for Mini and MS modules! They look blurry. The Jupiter and JP are cool, no complains there.

So which one is it?

a) We will eventually...

b) No way!

c) You bought Diva at a sale, you're not allowed to make requests.

[Urs]

Urs, please upgrade the knobs for Mini and MS modules! They look blurry. The Jupiter and JP are cool, no complains there.

So which one is it?

a) We will eventually...

b) No way!

c) You bought Diva at a sale, you're not allowed to make requests.

I'm currently in the process of releasing a synth... we haven't made any further plans

But yes, they are a tad blurry at high resolutions. Should be fixable.

[e@rs]

They look blurry to me even at default size, but no rush. Take your time and good luck with the Repro-1 launch.

[seamoss]

This thread has been thoroughly entertaining on so many different levels.

[Phil999]

entertaining? For me it was only a waste of time while waiting for a download to finish ...

Talking about music is boring already. Talking about music software ... even worse. Playing music and enjoying music is what makes sense.