MeldaProduction

alexis1 · Post by **alexis1** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:22 am

HI - I'm looking for a plug that will take the Mid signal, and pan it to both Sides, to clear a little space out in the middle. Does Melda have a plug that does that? I don't need too much beyond that, no large mega package necessary.

My Voxengo MSED *almost* does the trick - there is a "Mid Pan" dial, but I have to choose to pan it to either one side or the other - not both. Of course I can lower the volume of the Mid, but that if I understand things correctly, that is making some mid elements softer, which isn't my goal - it is to keep them at roughly the same volume, but pan them out to the sides a bit.

Thanks for any thoughts!

Chandlerhimself · Post by **Chandlerhimself** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:45 am

MStereogenerator and MStereoexpander will both make a mid signal stereo. Test them out and see which sounds better to you.

cron · Post by **cron** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:48 am

Wouldn't the mid panned to both sides be just, well, the mid? By definition the mid on its own produces an identical signal on both left and right channels. You can pan that one way or the other, but both? Sending the mid to the left and the right would just sound identical to the mid before processing - the same stuff coming out of the left and right speakers. Am I missing something here?

alexis1 · Post by **alexis1** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:05 am

cron wrote:Wouldn't the mid panned to both sides be just, well, the mid? By definition the mid on its own produces an identical signal on both left and right channels. You can pan that one way or the other, but both? Sending the mid to the left and the right would just sound identical to the mid before processing - the same stuff coming out of the left and right speakers. Am I missing something here?

Yes sir, I believe you're correct (of course!), and that means I hadn't thought things through well enough.

I have a vocal in the middle, and a stereo piano. The piano's notes in the middle portion of the stereo field - that's what I'd like to move away from there, to leave more room for the voice.

The way I'm doing it now satisfies that criteria - I'm lowering the volume of the piano mids a bit. But that's at the expense of losing information in that part of the piano scale (say for example I'm lowering the volume of the octave beginning with middle C). I'd like to not lose that information, just move it away from the mid so as not to conflict with the vocal which is there.

So, I guess my question is whether there's a way to take the piano frequencies that currently reside in the Mid, and move them aside in a balanced way, i.e., not so they're all scrunched up to one side.

I guess probably not ... I guess that's why Voxengo's MSED allows one to pan in one direction or the other only ...

Any thoughts please? Clearly I'm over my head (thanks cron for helping me think through that).

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:19 am

MStereoSpread will do the trick

Soarer · Post by **Soarer** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:11 pm

MStereoSpread yes or maybe an early reflection reverb set to full wet, though I'm not certain how much of hole you can make in the middle with it.

alexis1 · Post by **alexis1** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:25 pm

Thank you for your comments gentlemen!

I looked at the 3 minute teaser for MStereoSpread (is there a longer one?), and I got the impression it is great for taking a mono-ish signal and making it more stereo. I don't know that is exactly what I'm looking for though - my piano is wide stereo already, and I want to part it down the middle like opening up a stage curtain just a bit - push some a bit left, and some a bit right, to open a hole for a vocal in the middle.

Is that possible?

Thanks again!

steve2KVR · Post by **steve2KVR** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:30 pm

...another approach altogether might be using MAV in "mid" mode or consider MSD...without hearing the actual sounds/mix it's really hard to say...hth.../s~

alexis1 · Post by **alexis1** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:41 pm

steve2KVR wrote:...another approach altogether might be using MAV in "mid" mode or consider MSD...without hearing the actual sounds/mix it's really hard to say...hth.../s~

MAV = MAutoVolume? I'll take a look, thanks!

The audio situation is super easy to visualize: just two audio tracks: a Stereo piano patch, and a vocal in the middle. If the piano were considered a stage curtain, I would just want to open it up from the middle, "just a few inches" to make more room for the vocal.

steve2KVR · Post by **steve2KVR** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:50 pm

...basically, you want to "duck/lower" the "mid" portion of the "mid/side" version of the "Stereo piano patch"...it could even be done with MADEq ala the "kick/base" solution/situation...lot'sa ways to skin that cat...hth.../s~

jmg8 · Post by **jmg8** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:34 pm

alexis1 wrote: I got the impression it is great for taking a mono-ish signal and making it more stereo. I don't know that is exactly what I'm looking for though

That is exactly what you want to do.
If you lower the mid volume it will lower the level and you will loose some of the mid content. = Bad
If you make your mid signal more stereo, it will move to the sides for you. = Good

cron · Post by **cron** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:40 pm

Ahh, one of those brainfart moments. It happens to the best of us

Others suggestions of a 'stereoizer' type plug might help, but given that the piano is already stereo, how about a little mid/side EQ as a less drastic measure? You could try scooping out the conflicting frequencies from just the mid of the piano (with perhaps a little corresponding boost on the vocal) or even use a dynamic EQ like Nova to duck certain frequencies in the mid just when the vocal is playing.

alexis1 · Post by **alexis1** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:51 pm

steve2KVR wrote:...basically, you want to "duck/lower" the "mid" portion of the "mid/side" version of the "Stereo piano patch"...it could even be done with MADEq ala the "kick/base" solution/situation...lot'sa ways to skin that cat...hth.../s~

Thank you guys!

In the sense that I don't want to decrease the volume of the piano mid frequencies, just push them aside, I don't want to duck them. I want them to have the same volume, just be pushed to the side a bit.

I think I came up with an idea, maybe too complex to be worth it, but would you please critique it?

1) After determining a the frequency range of the stereo piano's Mid signal (using a Melda spectogram such as in my MAutoDynamicEQ), set up a 2-band multiband comp with the crossover at that frequency.

2) With the comp set to not compress at all, route the lower band to the Master stereo output at L10, and the upper band to R10 (for example).

Would that do the trick? No frequencies are attenuated, but room has been made for the vocals to be a bit more alone in the center.

Thanks again!

steve2KVR · Post by **steve2KVR** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:59 pm

...if that works for you, go for it...to me, your solution sounds like setting up a two band cross over using the compressor and panning the result left and right...which sorta matches your curtain metaphor...however, depending on the "pan law" xfade value, you will likely end up with a lower/compressed/ducked mid signal.../s~

steve2KVR · Post by **steve2KVR** » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:02 pm

...on second thought...consider trying all the solutions suggested above and see what you think...the worst that could happen is you discover something useful to use in the future...they are all viable solutions, pick the one you like best.../s~

MeldaProduction

KVR Audio

Melda plug that lets the Mid get panned to both Sides?