Bargain Center: discussion, gossip, etc.

[Fleer]

Just noticed this freebie.

http://www.samplelibraryreview.com/holi ... nstrument/

Cheers Rational, good find.

[Uncle E]

Does PSP allow purchases from third party vendors in their Buy One Get One?

Yes:

www.jrrshop.com/psp

[Uncle E]

I don't know if Low CPU usage on a VA means low quality sound?! I have some VAs that IMO have a great sound with low cpu usage like Mono/Poly, MS-20, VAZ Modualr, Retrologue and Hive.

Hive is a pretty good example of what Ghettosynth is talking about. It's a great sounding synth but you can hear what the extra processing is doing in DIVA and Repro-1.

[Uncle E]

FM8 sounds great and it has a dog-shit filter, but, it's filter is adequate for the task.

FM8 is the one I think everyone can agree exceeds expectations. To me, it's NI's 3rd best sounding synth, behind only Monark and Razor.

[EnGee]

I don't know if Low CPU usage on a VA means low quality sound?! I have some VAs that IMO have a great sound with low cpu usage like Mono/Poly, MS-20, VAZ Modualr, Retrologue and Hive.

Hive is a pretty good example of what Ghettosynth is talking about. It's a great sounding synth but you can hear what the extra processing is doing in DIVA and Repro-1.

If it is a great sounding synth, then that is enough for me, and this is a pretty good example of what I mean

[ghettosynth]

I don't know if Low CPU usage on a VA means low quality sound?! I have some VAs that IMO have a great sound with low cpu usage like Mono/Poly, MS-20, VAZ Modualr, Retrologue and Hive.

Hive is a pretty good example of what Ghettosynth is talking about. It's a great sounding synth but you can hear what the extra processing is doing in DIVA and Repro-1.

If it is a great sounding synth, then that is enough for me, and this is a pretty good example of what I mean

I have already classified Hive as an "ok" sounding synth from my point of view. Just because someone else gives it the "great" label doesn't mean that it is, that adjective is really subjective anyway. If you are trying to refute my position, it is necessary to use my labels. You cannot refute my classification by appealing to opinion. Go ask Urs if he thinks that Hive sounds as good as Diva. I can assure you that if you nail him down, he will tell you that the filter cannot sound as accurate.

You're not making any point, we already know that you like anything that squawks. If you want to prove a point find the synth that uses "much" less CPU than Diva or Repro 1 and is as accurate. When you think that you've found it, you will need to convince everyone that it is and have a good understanding as to why it is technically. Tell us about how the filter gets around the well known issues that are known to cause problems with accuracy in VA filters.

If you'd been following at all you would know that Urs purposely compromised the filter in Hive, frankly, to satisfy customers like you.

[ghettosynth]

FM8 sounds great and it has a dog-shit filter, but, it's filter is adequate for the task.

FM8 is the one I think everyone can agree exceeds expectations. To me, it's NI's 3rd best sounding synth, behind only Monark and Razor.

I agree. They could do so much more though. Massive is a lot of fun, and its filters are tolerable in context, but it could be so much better with some rework and better filters. Same thing with Absynth.

Really, they've dropped the ball on their native plugin design. They have the chops to make great filters but they don't want to take the effort to port them over to their existing plugins. It annoys me TBH. Really, their goofy P5 emulation would still be popular with a larger U/I, 64 bit, and just a better filter. It doesn't have have to be Repro-1 level accurate. Just port the Paul filter over and stuff that bad boy in there.

[EnGee]

I don't know if Low CPU usage on a VA means low quality sound?! I have some VAs that IMO have a great sound with low cpu usage like Mono/Poly, MS-20, VAZ Modualr, Retrologue and Hive.

Hive is a pretty good example of what Ghettosynth is talking about. It's a great sounding synth but you can hear what the extra processing is doing in DIVA and Repro-1.

If it is a great sounding synth, then that is enough for me, and this is a pretty good example of what I mean

I have already classified Hive as an "ok" sounding synth from my point of view. Just because someone else gives it the "great" label doesn't mean that it is, that adjective is really subjective anyway. If you are trying to refute my position, it is necessary to use my labels. You cannot refute my classification by appealing to opinion. Go ask Urs if he thinks that Hive sounds as good as Diva. I can assure you that if you nail him down, he will tell you that the filter cannot sound as accurate.

You're not making any point, we already know that you like anything that squawks. If you want to prove a point find the synth that uses "much" less CPU than Diva or Repro 1 and is as accurate. When you think that you've found it, you will need to convince everyone that it is and have a good understanding as to why it is technically. Tell us about how the filter gets around the well known issues that are known to cause problems with accuracy in VA filters.

If you'd been following at all you would know that Urs purposely compromised the filter in Hive, frankly, to satisfy customers like you.

[Gamma-UT]

Go ask Urs if he thinks that Hive sounds as good as Diva. I can assure you that if you nail him down, he will tell you that the filter cannot sound as accurate.
...
If you'd been following at all you would know that Urs purposely compromised the filter in Hive, frankly, to satisfy customers like you.

Accurate to what though? Hive was built out of demand for a 64bit souped-up Sylenth which itself was designed to service demand for a decent software-based late-90s VA such as the Virus, JP8080 or the AN1x. Sticking an ultra-accurate Moog LPF on it generally doesn't give you the sound you want.

[ghettosynth]

Go ask Urs if he thinks that Hive sounds as good as Diva. I can assure you that if you nail him down, he will tell you that the filter cannot sound as accurate.
...
If you'd been following at all you would know that Urs purposely compromised the filter in Hive, frankly, to satisfy customers like you.

Accurate to what though? Hive was built out of demand for a 64bit souped-up Sylenth which itself was designed to service demand for a decent software-based late-90s VA such as the Virus, JP8080 or the AN1x. Sticking an ultra-accurate Moog LPF on it generally doesn't give you the sound you want.

As accurate as pretty much any "actual" four pole resonant analog filter of your choosing. All that you're saying, which is clear to me, is that it's an attempt to replicate the less accurate efforts to model analog filters from the 90s. They didn't strive to be different then, nobody said, "let's make a filter that has some unpleasant distortion when you modulate it quickly", they were simply the best that we could do with, wait for it, limited CPU power, and, knowledge. They were rightly criticized at the time by analog aficionados for being sloppy emulations of "analog" which is what they were trying to emulate, but failed to do particularly well.

Here are Urs words exactly from the Hive intro thread:

Anyhow, we've also always been bugged about two things: First of all, why don't you make a simple synth that's full fo sweet spots? Secondly, why do all your synths smoke CPUs? So we decided to piece those things together. Fast unison oscillators, a user interface that's "reduced to the max" and an efficient take on those zero delay feedback filters that I call "cheating". Latter are not realistic analogue models, but they sound particularly good with unison oscillators.

So if you want to know exactly what they are trying to model or not model, ask Urs, clearly whatever it is, he thinks that they are not realistic analog models. All that said, I would recommend Hive over Sylenth, at least it has the "cheating" variants of "ZDF" filters.

There you have it though, in his own words, Hive is a product for people who complain about CPU consumption. In his own words Urs tells you that his own implementation of a low CPU ZDF variant isn't as accurate an analogue emulation as the non "cheating" variant.

This conversation really has no business at this depth in this thread. It started simply because I countered EnGee's comment about Sylenth being a no-brainer at < $100. This is, after all, the bargains discussion thread where we are free to discuss bargains. He expressed his opinion, I expressed mine. Some people will prefer his point of view, some will prefer mine. That should have been the end of it, but, as is typical. People get all offended when you insult their favorite synthesizer.

My point is, I'm pretty much done with this topic in this thread, I hope that you respect that. If you think Sylenth is a great value at $100 then, by all means, add your voice to that, but please, leave me out of it.

[Gamma-UT]

When Bob Moog came up with his concept for subtractive synthesis, the electroacoustic composers laughed at it. Analogue was a poor analogue for physical instruments and remains so. But people came to value the sound for what it is. Similarly, people, try to emulate the laughably poor (in textbook terms) behaviour of the z-plane filters in the Emu samplers for DnB Reeses much as others do for JP80x0 supersaws. If $100 buys you want you want in a convenient package, that's not a bad deal.

[ghettosynth]

If $100 buys you want you want in a convenient package, that's not a bad deal.

I can get a candy bar at Frys for about a buck. It's convenient and what I need, but it isn't particularly a good deal. You don't have to spend $100 to get supersaws and a bad filter.

[GreyLion]

I keep ending up in the wrong thread. I aim for the 'Obsessing about Killer Deals' thread, but for about a dozen pages over the past week, I keep somehow landing in the 'Obsessing about Synth Filters' thread.

I'm using the latest build of Chrome in Windows 7x64. I've cleared my cookies and such, but it seems to have helped only briefly. I don't know how to make it stop.

Any advice?

[dzilizzi]

I keep ending up in the wrong thread. I aim for the 'Obsessing about Killer Deals' thread, but for about a dozen pages over the past week, I keep somehow landing in the 'Obsessing about Synth Filters' thread.

I'm using the latest build of Chrome in Windows 7x64. I've cleared my cookies and such, but it seems to have helped only briefly. I don't know how to make it stop.

Any advice?

LOL! Sometimes these discussions help me decide whether to buy or not.

But really, I think your problem is Chrome doesn't have the right filters to give you your desired result. Maybeyou need to try a different synth, um, I mean browser.

[plexuss]

Uncle E, I don't get it, you post links in the No Chat for sale but when I click in to your site, the products do not show sale prices. The lastest is the Kush sale items. Why?