MTurboReverb preset making action, let's make the ultimate reverb! ;)

[plexuss]

Well, I agree only partly. When I first clapped in a cathedral, I was like "wowwwww" and since then I'm clapping every time . And one probably cannot simulate this using 2 speakers indeed, ever. Sadly. I'd really like that . But I think convolution makes things sound pretty realistic, nearly as far as one can get. And so I take these real IRs as benchmark.
(btw. after spending some time with them, I often seemed to like my algo version more than the original IR, but I'm a little worried if I'm not biased now )

When it comes to "musicality", I have one problem with it - everyone considers something else musical. After all that's why there are so many music styles etc. But I hear your point. The problem is, I'm having a hard time find the "use" for many Bricasti presets. Now I'm trying the Sunset chamber, which is recommended by pretty much everyone, and it has the distinctive delayed echo buildup, and I just don't see a way to use this, trying just about every audio material... It makes the mix completely muddy and filled with "stuff" . Any hints?

Btw. the point here is that MTurboReverb doesn't really have a distinct character. It's programmable, and so it can sound in various way, and if you'd make a topology like in say Bricasti, it should be possible to make it sound pretty much the same. Or better. Or worse .

I think you are getting closer to the crux: what one person considers a "great reverb" another person will consider it a "poor reverb". You just said that "...which is recommended by pretty much everyone" and then "... I just don't see a way to use this..."

There are no absolutes here. It's music. That's just the way it is. You simply will not be able to create a reverb that everyone likes. But, no harm in trying.

[j.mayr]

well, I think the really brilliant thing about MTR is, that you can make pretty much everything you like out of it - it doesn´t force you in any given direction - that´s what I really appreciate!!!
To me, mixing music is always an artform by itself - so the more unique, the better - I don´t care, if something´s a realistic emulation of natural space, or some hardware - whatever....
I like technology, that enables me, to realise my visions, about what the music should sound like, and the more alien and outstanding, the better, for me.
So I think the focus should be on creating some basic algorithms that are clever in terms of a fundamental sound character (or the lack thereoff, for those who like that kind of stuff) and not wasting CPU resources, for no reason.
Thank´s to all the "tweakability", that Vojtech´s creations offer for the sophisticated user - everything else is just a matter of taste and knowing your way, how to get there!

[plexuss]

I am hoping those of you that are jazzed by MTR come up with some really awesome sounding reverbs. I just can't get into the coding aspect of MTR - it's not how I work. Alas. So, I'll be waiting to check out what MTR can do!

[spencerlee]

For me reverb is really simple. If I add it to a sound and I can see the sound in a space, it is working. If it affects me emotionally it is working. If it does not do these things find a reverb that does.
By the way I have never met anyone who hated the Lexicon 224 or the 480 or the Bricasti. I have never met anybody who hated the original EMT plate. So you can make a reverb that everyone likes. They are standards.
You use reverb for what it does to the music not for any other reason. If enough people get to hear about MTR it will join the small list of goto reverbs.

[MeldaProduction]

Thank you j.mayr!

plexuss: I totally understand! Not everyone is into coding. But still you can randomize even the algorithm, plus lots of presets, so it should get even you going. I'd honestly love to have some creation from you.

[Chandlerhimself]

Absolutely not, read more carefuly before replying! (btw. if that would be true, wouldn't that be awesome ? )

But when it comes to realisticity (which is not what you are after, you made that clear many times, and I have absolutely no problem with that!), I'm generally very unsatisfied with existing algo reverbs. They just don't sound realistic to me at all, not even far... I'm actually trying to understand, why... But no idea so far. It almost seems to me like Bricasti and Lexicons are duplicating their designs despite they are not realistic at all (I'm mainly talking about the delayed buildup of reflections, any ideas?).

I hope you continue to add algos. I'd really like something in the vein of a bricasti. Many of the included algos you made sound really good. The Valhalla and clear room are particularly nice IMO, but honestly almost all of them are useable.

As far as lexicon goes, when they started the CPU and hardware issues limited what they could do as far as realism was concerned. They did the best with what they had, and then when things improved tech wise, they had already established the "lexicon" sound. People fell in love with the sound and they can't really change it. Also it seems like they aren't really into inovating nowadays and would rather just add tweaks to older ideas.

A few weeks ago I was reading a forum and the developer of the bricasti said the first version he made had people complaining that it sounded too realistic and uncolored. I think at this point that modulated sound with the slow attack has entered the general culture, so people like it even if it is unrealistic.

Also, while we're on the subject, what were you using to try to simulate the bricasti, FDN, R, CC? I'm curious what would sound the closest to that sound. I bet you could sell at least a few copies over at the vi-control forum if you can simulate the Boston hall preset from the bricasti.

[caulixtla]

serial taps are probably the worst things imho, these are really parts of the ancient design and the reason was probably mainly the efficient implementation, not audio quality. Though, maybe they just experimented with it.

The classic Lexicon 224 used a version of stfb for their reverb designs, as alluded to in “Effect Design Part One” by Dattorro. And, it can sound really good. Let me demonstrate with the beta of MTurboReverb I am using to develop presets. Let’s have only one active module, LR1, and let’s put this topology in it:

7b[a];stfb[#[b[v(0.1)];fl;fh;a;b[swap]]];

This is a reasonable approximation of the classic algorithms from the 224 which gave us the reverb in, among many other things, the legendary introduction to “Blade Runner.” For best results, I set “size” to 15%, “Delay Max” to 33.3%, and length is 500ms. Complexity is 32 to minimize ringing and metallic resonances (yes, David Griesinger was able to reduce ringing with fewer nodes by carefully hand tuning all of the allpass filters and delay times, but here in 2017, we’ll just brute force it)

How does it sound? Very ethereal with long decays. Let me arpeggiate a C chord through this reverb, starting off dry and fading in the reverb:

https://soundcloud.com/caulixtla/circle ... urboreverb

It’s called a “Circle 8” reverb because the first published version of this algorithm (in “Effect Design Part One”) looks like a Circle 8 in the diagram.

[Tagirijus]

Wow. Cool ongoing discussions. I am really impressed by all the statements you people wrote. Very interesting to learn more about reverbs after all.

@plexuss:
I understand your point regarding "I am not the coding guy". I am a hobby coder (mainly python scripts to automate bureaucracy and script writing), but I also have some problems "feel" the usage of the modules in MTR. It's to me like: making a topology, recognizing somethign wrong in the reverb sound and then I am not sure with which module I could equalize it to make it sound better ... but maybe that's not the workflow of reverb design after all? ... I still played with some modules and mainly tweaked the other designer values, which are also great for sculpting the sound. So I assume that even with these values you can change the reverb a lot already.

@The-Reality-Discussion:
According to my experience we like to be fooled, no question. Beside music production I also do sound design. In this area I learned that it just work to use sounds, which are not seen in a scene, but are meant to represent this thing in the scene.
Speaking of sound design: you all mentioned musical reverb. Since I do sound design a lot as well, I really would appreciate a real-space reverb, by the way

[Paulnz]

As well as real-space reverbs is it possible to create any effects similar to Zynaptiq Adaptiverb?

[ErikH]

If MTurboReverb won't be able to create effects similar to Adaptiverb, it won't be long before Vojtech will create a plugin that can. ( remember MMorph)

[Chandlerhimself]

I finally decided to make a video showing some of the stuff I've been working on. I wanted it to be quick, but it ended up being over 13 min. Anyway, it should give people some idea of what can be done with it although it is a bit barebones because I only show presets I personally made and I didn't even go too in depth with them. Anyway check it out and let me know what you think.

[onerob]

Good work! I like the lush sound at 8:00.

[MeldaProduction]

Cool! Need to watch that!

Btw. while experimenting with bricasti I think this one works pretty well as one of the layers:

an[#an[a;fh;fl]]

It nicely creates the delayed buildup. I think what people may like it is that it sort of fills the empty space in between, almost like a compressor. I'd recommend Complexity 3.

Edit: Cauxiltha's algorithm 7b[a];stfb[#[b[v(0.1)];fl;fh;a;b[swap]]] works too, but it's sort of metallic. I quite believe that's how they were doing it before. The an[#an[a;fh;fl]] is 2 level nesting, which probably wasn't something people would be trying before, but it works very well.

[Soarer]

...Anyway check it out and let me know what you think.

Well done Mr. Chandler! Nice video and you made some genuine presets too. I also like the lush, dreamy reverb a lot - it sounds great with the guitar. And the sping is so fine too.
I also prefer the Ozone style.

[XComposer]

I appreciate in particular the implementation of the Distance parameters as seen in this video and I am looking forward to testing it.
The ideal for me would be something like what can be obtained with Eareverb (its POS interface is really very nice, but I don't think that a similar GUI would be possible with MTR, though I would like it, personally). I see that this reverb seems to be very smooth: it doesn't click or stutter when changing the parameters in real time (and when automated, I suppose), good for me!