License model no way !!!
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- KVRist
- 174 posts since 11 May, 2013 from United States
Dom, what about bug fixes? I have no problem with paying this for major upgrades, but I have an issue if I have to pay another $169 just to get bug fixes.
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- KVRAF
- 1551 posts since 14 Feb, 2010
This is my biggest question also.....4damind wrote:So you must pay 379€ to buy Bigwig 2 and every year 160€ to get all updates?
I understand you guys need to eat... And dont care to pay for the update after 3 years.
But 160€ every year?
Im lost...
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- KVRAF
- 2454 posts since 5 Oct, 2003
I don't get why people are so adamantly negative about this plan. This seems worth a try and either it will succeed or not, if not it will change.
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- KVRAF
- 4072 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO
Don't worry guys, it won't work, people won't update and they will be forced to offer heavy discounts.
dedication to flying
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- KVRian
- 869 posts since 11 Jun, 2015 from Sweden
killmaster wrote:I don't get why people are so adamantly negative about this plan. This seems worth a try and either it will succeed or not, if not it will change.
Wake up! Like adobe will change their plan?
Greed will take us all!
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- KVRAF
- 1551 posts since 14 Feb, 2010
Bitwig isnt big as adobe....SpaceTraffic wrote:killmaster wrote:I don't get why people are so adamantly negative about this plan. This seems worth a try and either it will succeed or not, if not it will change.
Wake up! Like adobe will change their plan?
Greed will take us all!
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- KVRian
- 869 posts since 11 Jun, 2015 from Sweden
maybe Ableton will see its chance now! ,)rod_zero wrote:Don't worry guys, it won't work, people won't update and they will be forced to offer heavy discounts.
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- KVRian
- 869 posts since 11 Jun, 2015 from Sweden
I hope!codec17 wrote:Bitwig isnt big as adobe....SpaceTraffic wrote:killmaster wrote:I don't get why people are so adamantly negative about this plan. This seems worth a try and either it will succeed or not, if not it will change.
Wake up! Like adobe will change their plan?
Greed will take us all!
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- KVRist
- 135 posts since 10 Sep, 2015
Hmm - I was considering buying Bitwig in the near future, but this kind of pricing is really a no-go for me.
I already own Cubase (full version) and I liked the way Bitwig does things in a alternate way, so the program is really tempting. However - just as was said earlier, the yearly renew price is far, far too steep. I pay that amount of money to keep Cubase up-to-date in Two Whole Years (minor 0.5 update €49 one year and major x.0 update €99 next year). This are prices I just can afford. Forking out €150 every year is just too much for me. I also have other programs (and hardware) that I have to keep up-to-date, and I have a monthly limit in what I can spend.
Why do not go the way Sonar Platinum goes? That's a monthly payment of €19, and you can let it run as long as you want. You can renew that every year, but if you don't renew you can keep all the stuff you payed for so far. You can renew any time later (for the same price), when they get something you really want.
So - as much I like the idea of Bitwig, forking out a hefty sum to buy the program, and a year later almost the half of that money again is just too expensive in my opinion. Sorry - but I will pass this one...
I already own Cubase (full version) and I liked the way Bitwig does things in a alternate way, so the program is really tempting. However - just as was said earlier, the yearly renew price is far, far too steep. I pay that amount of money to keep Cubase up-to-date in Two Whole Years (minor 0.5 update €49 one year and major x.0 update €99 next year). This are prices I just can afford. Forking out €150 every year is just too much for me. I also have other programs (and hardware) that I have to keep up-to-date, and I have a monthly limit in what I can spend.
Why do not go the way Sonar Platinum goes? That's a monthly payment of €19, and you can let it run as long as you want. You can renew that every year, but if you don't renew you can keep all the stuff you payed for so far. You can renew any time later (for the same price), when they get something you really want.
So - as much I like the idea of Bitwig, forking out a hefty sum to buy the program, and a year later almost the half of that money again is just too expensive in my opinion. Sorry - but I will pass this one...
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 27 Dec, 2015
Exactly this. I like Bitwig and I put a lot into learning it, but this is simply discouraging no matter how you justify it.Granum wrote:This will probably have the opposite effect intended... People will wait to update because they are waiting for that next feature (e.g. the promised modularity or network collab) and don't want to waste their "subscription" time. If you are going to offer a subscription model at least offer a monthly sub as well. This will likely push many paying users to warez. You guys really don't respect your early adopters, don't forget that without us your company wouldn't still exist.
Also once again, it's not about not getting new features, it's about not getting any minor updates and bug fixes after 12 months without paying all over again. It might even wreck havoc to user-made controller scripts.
Even though I do enjoy working with Bitwig I can probably live without it, and at this rate DAWs such as Studio One look much more convincing.
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- KVRer
- 21 posts since 1 Dec, 2006
Man, this company has some nerves. I really hate people bashing developers and being rude in general, but Bitwig really deserves it. What a disappointment! Please don’t talk to people as they were stupid. All this marketing bulls**t like “we now can introduce bigger features a lot more often” and “It is even more fair and transparent”. People saying now, that they were used as paid beta testers, are completely right. I’m using Ableton Live and at some point after many fixes I tried to make an EP with Bitwig. It was not possible to work with it. I tried it very hard, but this software was and still is so buggy. Patches were coming out very frequently, some bugs were fixed, other introduced. Than already fixed bugs appeared again. I kept my license because like many others I hoped they will fix Bitwig at some point in the future, that they keep developing and more important fixing this software, charging relatively small / normal fee for upgrades every few years like Ableton does. And now this! For me it’s simple. I will wait for few years and see if they manage to fix all the serious bugs and then if this software can be used in professional environment, maybe I will pay 160€ for Bitwig 2 or 3. Nobody will buy Bitwig 1 from me anyway at this point.
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- KVRAF
- 3729 posts since 3 Nov, 2015
I'm looking forward to use Bitwig 2.0 - this is great news inasmuch to explore the creative possibilities. I'm quite happy using the current Bitwig on Linux although having more possibilities can bring more artistic expression in the music.
So I'll pay 159€ to upgrade to 2.0, that's all right.
What I would like to specifically know is, say in March 2018 a year from now, and there is no major Bitwig upgrade in sight yet for a year, apart from minor updates for bug fixes. I will not be getting any bug fixes if I do not pay another 159€ early 2018.
Then in March 2019 Bitwig 3.0 is released. As of now, I will be happy to upgrade and pay 159€. So this means that in 2018 I will not get any bug fixes.
Question: does the Bitwig team plan to release additional features between 2.0 and 3.0 ?
Mind you I do not oppose per se this scheme but to support motivation, there should be a definite roadmap of features, of what's in the future of Bitwig. What are you aiming for in 3.0 ? Do you know ?
So I'll pay 159€ to upgrade to 2.0, that's all right.
What I would like to specifically know is, say in March 2018 a year from now, and there is no major Bitwig upgrade in sight yet for a year, apart from minor updates for bug fixes. I will not be getting any bug fixes if I do not pay another 159€ early 2018.
Then in March 2019 Bitwig 3.0 is released. As of now, I will be happy to upgrade and pay 159€. So this means that in 2018 I will not get any bug fixes.
Question: does the Bitwig team plan to release additional features between 2.0 and 3.0 ?
Mind you I do not oppose per se this scheme but to support motivation, there should be a definite roadmap of features, of what's in the future of Bitwig. What are you aiming for in 3.0 ? Do you know ?
Last edited by mevla on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 33 posts since 3 Apr, 2016
If modular devices will come after 13 months after 2.0 it will be pure coincidence 
(just kidding. I was waiting it sooooo much)
Well, to pay 160 eur. (btw why exactly 159 why not simply 150. Well anyway) for update subscription is not so bad I guess. But pay for bug fixes sounds not alright for me. I know, fixing bugs is a job but people have to pay 379 EUR for software so devs have some bugfixing duty.
So I think updates and new stuff it's subscription but bug fixes make free for all who paid for software.
As usual just personal opinion.
(just kidding. I was waiting it sooooo much)Well, to pay 160 eur. (btw why exactly 159 why not simply 150. Well anyway) for update subscription is not so bad I guess. But pay for bug fixes sounds not alright for me. I know, fixing bugs is a job but people have to pay 379 EUR for software so devs have some bugfixing duty.
So I think updates and new stuff it's subscription but bug fixes make free for all who paid for software.
As usual just personal opinion.
Last edited by FantasticDUDE on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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- KVRian
- 911 posts since 10 Dec, 2013
I too am a bit skeptical, but willing to give it a try given that Bitwig is still a small and (fairly) communicative company and obviously need to try different things to survive.
I do feel that the subscription length is a bit of an issue though. I understand why they would be reluctant to add monthly pricing as this immediately puts them in a boat with some other companies that have made (in my opinion) cynical moves to get more cash out of people, without the intention of actually offering any more back to the customer.
Like people have said, it seems easily possible to end up in a situation where you narrowly miss a large upgrade due to unfortunate timing on your subscription. Maybe you're in a situation where there's one specific bug that really affects your method of working, but other than that Bitwig is pretty much solid for you. This would make it difficult to choose the 'stop paying until a really big new feature excites you' approach.
As stated in the other thread, I'm happy to give Bitwig the chance to prove they can run this model effectively as I'm a big fan of the software and have no interest in moving back to Ableton or re-learning Cubase at this point in time. I'm also quite impressed with the additions, actually. I was getting a bit concerned with the lack of information/roadmap/updates in the past 6 months, but what's been added seems like a pretty big achievement for the amount of time they've been 'quiet' for.
They're all relatively small things in isolation but I get the impression that the underlying engine/framework has moved forward a big leap with this update, presumably paving the way for quicker updates in the future and hopefully a smooth transition to the fully modular system & network collaboration. Let's see if the Bitwig team can prove that the subscription model is worth it if the company on the other end actually delivers
I do feel that the subscription length is a bit of an issue though. I understand why they would be reluctant to add monthly pricing as this immediately puts them in a boat with some other companies that have made (in my opinion) cynical moves to get more cash out of people, without the intention of actually offering any more back to the customer.
Like people have said, it seems easily possible to end up in a situation where you narrowly miss a large upgrade due to unfortunate timing on your subscription. Maybe you're in a situation where there's one specific bug that really affects your method of working, but other than that Bitwig is pretty much solid for you. This would make it difficult to choose the 'stop paying until a really big new feature excites you' approach.
As stated in the other thread, I'm happy to give Bitwig the chance to prove they can run this model effectively as I'm a big fan of the software and have no interest in moving back to Ableton or re-learning Cubase at this point in time. I'm also quite impressed with the additions, actually. I was getting a bit concerned with the lack of information/roadmap/updates in the past 6 months, but what's been added seems like a pretty big achievement for the amount of time they've been 'quiet' for.
They're all relatively small things in isolation but I get the impression that the underlying engine/framework has moved forward a big leap with this update, presumably paving the way for quicker updates in the future and hopefully a smooth transition to the fully modular system & network collaboration. Let's see if the Bitwig team can prove that the subscription model is worth it if the company on the other end actually delivers