Bitwig

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:17 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:It is even more fair and transparent compared to us deciding "Ok, now we call it version 3 and make you pay" without you knowing how long the life cycle of version 2 will be. In that case you would not even know how long you will get updates for your 2.0 investment.

This new model enables us to completely forget about those things and just machine gun out features as we go. We thought a lot about it and decided to do that brave step as we think it is the best for both sides.

Cheers,
Dom

WRONG! You turn the facts like you want to do...because you can see it also the other way,
paying for 12 months where the customer dont know what to get - maybe NOTHING at all. (if you look at the development speed of the last 2 years..)
So its for the users to spend some faith in the company first - but my guess is, that you will fail. Sorry, too early for that license model - you should have get faith back from the customers first. Because many think they are using a beta software since the release of 1.0.

xanthos · Post by **xanthos** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:19 pm

lataille wrote:
dom@bitwig wrote: It is important to note that it is not a yearly fee or subscription!
You buy a full license, and on top of that you get 12 months of free upgrades, even if those are major version number upgrades. After those 12 months, you get to keep you license and you can use it as long as you want and renew your license if we introduce a feature you are interested in.

Cheers,
Dom
I understand what you meant, I'm just wholeheartedly disagreeing with it.
You guys have broken so many promises for V1, early adopters like me were essentially paying to beta test your software. and now you're overcharging us for an upgrade that shouldn't be 2.0. I can't even Dom

I'm SO with you man!... I was too an early adopter.. supporter from the first minute..spreading the word...and now this!

mevla · Post by **mevla** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:21 pm

Hez wrote: ... some other companies that have made (in my opinion) cynical moves to get more cash out of people ...

In the abstract, delaying bug fixes would also be cynical.

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:26 pm

xanthos wrote: WRONG! You turn the facts like you want to do...because you can see it also the other way,
paying for 12 months where the customer dont know what to get - maybe NOTHING at all. (if you look at the development speed of the last 2 years..)

Not wrong: the old model would have been that we sell you the 2.0 upgrade with the new features that 2.0 includes, then you get bugfix updates and maybe a few new little features until we collected and held back enough big features to sell them to you as a 3.0.
With the new model it will be a constant stream of bugfixes and new features.

Cheers,
Dom

Head Under Water · Post by **Head Under Water** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:29 pm

Oh, please - PLEASE - exclude bug fixes from the model. This is not the way to go

FantasticDUDE · Post by **FantasticDUDE** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:32 pm

mevla wrote:What are you aiming for in 3.0 ? Do you know ?

I get your point but 2.0 only today was announced and not even released. It's kind early thinking about 3.0

Hez · Post by **Hez** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:33 pm

mevla wrote:
Hez wrote: ... some other companies that have made (in my opinion) cynical moves to get more cash out of people ...
In the abstract, delaying bug fixes would also be cynical.

Yes, absolutely. At this point I suppose it's a matter of their honesty & our trust in said honesty.

I'm personally optimistic, but there's always a possibility I'll need to dig this post up in 13 months and change 'optimistic' to 'naive'

mevla · Post by **mevla** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:38 pm

Head Under Water wrote:Oh, please - PLEASE - exclude bug fixes from the model. This is not the way to go

That sounds all right, maybe. All people will get bug fixes and if you also want features right away you then pay yearly. Then people getting the bug fixes will pay only at the next major update and get the features only at that time.

This also means that if Bitwig releases exciting features in-between releases it might motivate the 'bug-fixes-only' people to join in to pay yearly. In other words, there will be the possibility to join in based on actual results, which is different from paying without having seen anything.

thetechnobear · Post by **thetechnobear** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:40 pm

@dom - is it correct to assume then that the upgrade from 1.0 to 2.0, is basically buying the 12 month upgrade plan? i.e. we get all updates for 12 months.

I'll admit, when I read this model, I didn't like it... im not a fan of subscription models, and like others, the idea that you have to buy a plan to pay for bug fixes, felt wrong.

BUT, I think in practice it might be ok, view it this way - you buy a BWS upgrade whenever it offers what you want... then you get 12 months for them to bug fix those features. Then you dont have to upgrade again, until BWS offers you something else you want.

really its not that dissimilar to other 'upgrade models' , e.g. Steinberg is upgrading every year (0.5 releases) , but they don't really offer many bug fixes on prior releases, so often if you want a bug fix your also going to have to upgrade.

practical question, when our upgrade plan expires are we locked (for re-downloading purposes) to a specific release (e.g. 2.5.4) or a major release (2.5), perhaps if its the latter, this allows a way for the 'bug fix' upgrades to work, even outside an upgrade plan?

dom@bitwig · Post by **dom@bitwig** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:07 pm

Exactly, upgrading from 1 to 2 gives you the 12 months upgrade plan.
In those 12 months Bitwig Studio will grow more organically than before: we do bugfix updates as we used to do, but we now can put new features into those frequent updates, too, without having to care about how to call the version, care to collect new features and hold them back to make them a paid major upgrade or whatever.
If the 12 months are over, you keep a license forever for the version it currently is and use it, or decide to renew to another 12 months whenever you like.

Basically it frees you und us from that version number game: Oh, new major version, great new features - and then not getting exciting features until the next major version.

Cheers,
Dom

SpaceTraffic · Post by **SpaceTraffic** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:10 pm

I realize I am abit of a jerk comparing Bitwig with adobe. Looking at 2.0!!! What a dope effort and work they put into it! Sooo excited... ! And as long as the new model benefits dopeness and gold like this we all who update and contribute should be proud to be apart of it. For me, personally I will never afford to buy each upgrade, but a 2.0 will be usable for me for ages to come... !

Go Bitwig!

Obsolete317542 · Post by **Obsolete317542** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:13 pm

[DELETED]

amadeusp · Post by **amadeusp** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:14 pm

I actually do not have a problem with the new pricing system. I wouldn't like an actual subscription model though. I like to buy something and then actually own it. Speaking of the actual amount of money we will have to spend on Bitwig in the future (to keep it up to date and shiny), to me it feels a little bit like "a plugin more or less per year", so I really don't bother that much and actually find it quite fair, to be honest.

Plus, the better Bitwig is doing as a business, the faster the product (and the company) will grow and become even more awesome. At least this is how I feel about it. I am already very happy with Bitwig 1.x and so I am more than willing to contribute to their success with my money in the future.

Maybe bug fixes could become a problem for people who can't update (for any reason whatsoever).

Anyways, the more important part of the announcement to me is the idea of establishing a more constant stream of great new updates.

Head Under Water · Post by **Head Under Water** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:14 pm

Dom, you realize that with "bugfix updates as we used to do" you still haven't fixed something like the white screen of death, and that's been in there for way over a year now. Just this week I had 3 complete crashes on minor projects. I get that that is one difficult example, but apparently sometimes fixes take way longer than 12 months. And what if a feature is coming in shortly before your plan expires but this feature causes bugs which you are then stuck with?
You can't be serious about having bug-fixes dependend on this model, please tell me I'm missing something here.

sisarii · Post by **sisarii** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:15 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:Exactly, upgrading from 1 to 2 gives you the 12 months upgrade plan.
In those 12 months Bitwig Studio will grow more organically than before: we do bugfix updates as we used to do, but we now can put new features into those frequent updates, too, without having to care about how to call the version, care to collect new features and hold them back to make them a paid major upgrade or whatever.
If the 12 months are over, you keep a license forever for the version it currently is and use it, or decide to renew to another 12 months whenever you like.

Basically it frees you und us from that version number game: Oh, new major version, great new features - and then not getting exciting features until the next major version.

Cheers,
Dom

Will you consider adding a monthly option of 159/12 or even with a markup like Avid and Slate do?

Bitwig

KVR Audio

License model no way !!!