Bitwig 2.0
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- KVRian
- 1286 posts since 7 Dec, 2013 from Earth
Mark my words: first big update will arrive after 1 year and 1 month, when everyone's first year of updates has expired. They will simply hold back the major features every time.
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- KVRian
- 912 posts since 1 Nov, 2012 from Berlin
Would you be willing to bet on that with me? 
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- KVRist
- 364 posts since 13 Nov, 2010
SUBSCRIPTION???? Damn... And I believed in this software. Now I'm ashamed to have been a supporter of yet another company gauging it's customers. I'm so saddened by this. I just finished replacing all my waves apps, now I have to step away from this too. Well, If you guys ever change your mind on how loyal you are to your customers... Who you used as a paid beta group... I might think about it again. This industry is on it's way down hill in a big way with moves like this. Greed over loyalty.
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- KVRian
- 912 posts since 1 Nov, 2012 from Berlin
It is not a subscription.
You buy a license for Bitwig Studio 2.0 - and you get 12 months of updates and upgrades on top and after the 12 months you get to keep the latest version that was available in that moment, even if it is 3.5 or whatever.
Cheers,
Dom
You buy a license for Bitwig Studio 2.0 - and you get 12 months of updates and upgrades on top and after the 12 months you get to keep the latest version that was available in that moment, even if it is 3.5 or whatever.
Cheers,
Dom
FREAKING awesome what im seeing. 
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- KVRian
- 1262 posts since 15 May, 2002 from Finland
Looks great, and I absolutely 100% love the whole modular concept. I'm still hoping to get CV out with some update, so I could use this with my analog hardware 
Signed up for the beta!
But... I'm also shocked by the new licensing model. So now the case is, that I might buy V2, and if it still has bugs after 12 months (version 1 still has), I need to pay 159€ just for the hope that software I already paid for gets fixed.
On the other hand I like the thinking about not having to hold back major features. Still, that sounds like a steep price to me. To begin with, Bitwig is quite expensive, 160€ on top of 380€ will end up being 540€ for the ability to get even the mandatory bugfixes after the first 12 months. Especially since for that price you can get Ableton Live Suite, which is a packacge with much more content. (well, that is not an option for me since I don't like Live really, but just for a point of comparison...)
At least bugfixes should be free for all features I have bought already as well as the main DAW functions, in case they are not, I will feel very disappointed with this.
Signed up for the beta!But... I'm also shocked by the new licensing model. So now the case is, that I might buy V2, and if it still has bugs after 12 months (version 1 still has), I need to pay 159€ just for the hope that software I already paid for gets fixed.
On the other hand I like the thinking about not having to hold back major features. Still, that sounds like a steep price to me. To begin with, Bitwig is quite expensive, 160€ on top of 380€ will end up being 540€ for the ability to get even the mandatory bugfixes after the first 12 months. Especially since for that price you can get Ableton Live Suite, which is a packacge with much more content. (well, that is not an option for me since I don't like Live really, but just for a point of comparison...)
At least bugfixes should be free for all features I have bought already as well as the main DAW functions, in case they are not, I will feel very disappointed with this.
Last edited by Taika-Kim on Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 18 Apr, 2015
Looks great! It was clear that Bitwig is developing the second version heavily in the last year. Just look at the clunky Ableton. When you want to assign one of these MAX LFOs its increasing your CPU consumption pretty heavily. It was also clear that in the second it is announced people will complain.
For me there are still central questions:
Are there touch improvements?
What is with the modular system?
btw: JUST take my money and develope!
For me there are still central questions:
Are there touch improvements?
What is with the modular system?
btw: JUST take my money and develope!
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- KVRian
- 912 posts since 1 Nov, 2012 from Berlin
Taika-Kim: CV out is already in 2.0, check the new devices on the 2.0 page!
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- KVRAF
- 2429 posts since 11 Jan, 2009 from Portland, OR, USA
viceverser wrote:SUBSCRIPTION???? Damn... And I believed in this software. Now I'm ashamed to have been a supporter of yet another company gauging it's customers. I'm so saddened by this. I just finished replacing all my waves apps, now I have to step away from this too. Well, If you guys ever change your mind on how loyal you are to your customers... Who you used as a paid beta group... I might think about it again. This industry is on it's way down hill in a big way with moves like this. Greed over loyalty.
Did you even read the info, or just freakout and come here to whine? It's not a subscription model. If it was, your access would close after 12 months. They are simply stating that if you buy Bitwig, you will receive 12 months worth of updates / upgrades without charge. You could have easily figured that out by reading the info on their site rather than crying foul here.
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- KVRist
- 364 posts since 13 Nov, 2010
Yep, Then you get an OS update, and you can't use Bitwig unless you pay more...
Or are you saying that there is perpetual version support??? Like if I stop paying but update my OS, say at Bitwig version 2.1, then 2.1 is going to work on my current OS???
Because, if not??? That's called forcing people into an update corner. Technology is progressing exponentially, so to be forced to cripple your OS trajectory for software compatibility is a nasty way to repay customer loyalty.
Or what if Bitwig 2.1 comes out and it has crippling bugs (as is very frequent here) but your pay wall period runs out??? Those 'features' you were so lucky to get aren't worth anything if the Application doesn't work??? And you release a bug fix 2 weeks later, with no extra features, just compatibility??? Then what??? Oh, customer can always revert right??? Then they didn't get that full 12 months worth of features did they???
If OS support was managed separately to the feature updates, that's a different story. But it isn't, is it?... The sly move here is knowing that OS updates mean forced payments.
Whether today or tomorrow... Your customers will work out the greedy moves being made. It's just a matter of time.
Or are you saying that there is perpetual version support??? Like if I stop paying but update my OS, say at Bitwig version 2.1, then 2.1 is going to work on my current OS???
Because, if not??? That's called forcing people into an update corner. Technology is progressing exponentially, so to be forced to cripple your OS trajectory for software compatibility is a nasty way to repay customer loyalty.
Or what if Bitwig 2.1 comes out and it has crippling bugs (as is very frequent here) but your pay wall period runs out??? Those 'features' you were so lucky to get aren't worth anything if the Application doesn't work??? And you release a bug fix 2 weeks later, with no extra features, just compatibility??? Then what??? Oh, customer can always revert right??? Then they didn't get that full 12 months worth of features did they???
If OS support was managed separately to the feature updates, that's a different story. But it isn't, is it?... The sly move here is knowing that OS updates mean forced payments.
Whether today or tomorrow... Your customers will work out the greedy moves being made. It's just a matter of time.
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- KVRist
- 364 posts since 13 Nov, 2010
I referred to waves as my example... So apart from semantics, what are you actually rebutting here???mholloway wrote:viceverser wrote:SUBSCRIPTION???? Damn... And I believed in this software. Now I'm ashamed to have been a supporter of yet another company gauging it's customers. I'm so saddened by this. I just finished replacing all my waves apps, now I have to step away from this too. Well, If you guys ever change your mind on how loyal you are to your customers... Who you used as a paid beta group... I might think about it again. This industry is on it's way down hill in a big way with moves like this. Greed over loyalty.
Did you even read the info, or just freakout and come here to whine? It's not a subscription model. If it was, your access would close after 12 months. They are simply stating that if you buy Bitwig, you will receive 12 months worth of updates / upgrades without charge. You could have easily figured that out by reading the info on their site rather than crying foul here.
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- KVRian
- 1262 posts since 15 May, 2002 from Finland
Ah I did not realise that yellow banner was also a link. Nice, I remeber chatting about one of you guys in spring about CV, and he was like "nice idea, we didn't really think about that yet". Or maybe he just didn't know it's coming? Anyway, I'm super excited to see it implemented! I love the forward looking thinking with BW, and the courage to shake some expected ways of creating a DAW.
For the spectrum analyzer, it would be super useful for sound design to be able to drop markers on specific frequencies. For example when doing inter- and cross-modulation stuff, it's hard to analyse by ear all the harmonics that are happening... I'm using Voxengo Span now, but it sucks to all the time to have to bring the cursor to the analyser window to check where the different notes lie in the spectrum.
Note echo, cool!
Note velocity mapping, useful, I use a Roland D50 as a controller, and it outputs everything under value 90 or so :/ I really need to smash the keys to go all the way up to 127.
Hmm, one thing, how do you calibrate the CV out for pitch CV? I don't see a calibrate button anywhere there...
For the spectrum analyzer, it would be super useful for sound design to be able to drop markers on specific frequencies. For example when doing inter- and cross-modulation stuff, it's hard to analyse by ear all the harmonics that are happening... I'm using Voxengo Span now, but it sucks to all the time to have to bring the cursor to the analyser window to check where the different notes lie in the spectrum.
Note echo, cool!
Note velocity mapping, useful, I use a Roland D50 as a controller, and it outputs everything under value 90 or so :/ I really need to smash the keys to go all the way up to 127.
Hmm, one thing, how do you calibrate the CV out for pitch CV? I don't see a calibrate button anywhere there...
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- KVRian
- 532 posts since 18 Sep, 2013 from Mesa, AZ
It's a bit more expensive than I'd like it to be, but I can think of worse ways to spend $170. It's not subscription service but a perpetual fallback license. If you are worried about O/S upgrades then switch to Linux instead of using a Mac.
~ good luck ~
~ re~member to do good in a spirit of love, unity, compassion, and kindness ~
~ re~member to do good in a spirit of love, unity, compassion, and kindness ~
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- KVRist
- 364 posts since 13 Nov, 2010
or PC... That's not the best defense... Switch OS so their pay wall is less risky... As I said, poor customer loyalty.SoundGoddess wrote:It's a bit more expensive than I'd like it to be, but I can think of worse ways to spend $170. It's not subscription service but a perpetual fallback license. If you are worried about O/S upgrades then switch to Linux instead of using a Mac.
