Bitwig

TristanMendoza · Post by **TristanMendoza** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:33 pm

dom@bitwig wrote:
Coockie1176ln wrote:Dom what reasons for this decision?
Does it have to do with online collaburation and sevrer maintance or why would you change payment? I belive everybody thinks you guys disslike this. Please tell us why.
One of the main reasons is that we now can introduce bigger features a lot more often with small updates instead of collecting and holding them back for major releases like a 2.0 or a 3.0 - it might worry some when reading this, but i'm totally looking forward to it as it actually is a nice change because it will allow us to grow Bitwig Studio on a way more regular basis and introduce exciting stuff a lot more often and frequently.

Cheers,
Dom

PHY6: As i suggested, please get in contact with the support team for the details and we can try to find a solution, makes no sense to dive in to every single personal issue in a forum thread. Thanks!

I can appreciate, and respect this reasoning. Not a totally bad idea. At least the ability to use the program wont go away if you don't pay, like some other programs. I had the mix for my album, and a friends album in another program and I had to renew my license to even gain access to our own pieces of work. It wasnt super long, but it did put things at a standstill and it does make you kinda nervous.

astartes · Post by **astartes** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:39 pm

I´ve seen the same negativity as Cakewalk came with their new Payment Plan.
Sceptical at first i jumped Ship as soon as they introduced monthly Payment and never regetted that Descision.
(Sonar is, besides Bitwig, the second DAW i use, mostly as a Recording device and for it´s simulation of Analogue gear included in the Software. Syncing with Bitwig is fantastic btw. Sonar can run as Clock Slave to BWS and works without any Problems that way).

My biggest concern atm is the annual Price.... could be that i´m not able to update until December when my extra Payment for Christmas comes. An Option for paying monthly would be handy for some (maybe).

That said: I have worked with a similar Payment system once... and if Bitwig are able to Push BWS forward as Cakewalk was with Sonar after they had the fredom to fire out even Mayor Features without the need to wait for a "Big" number Update then BWS will grow fast and grow strong.

svervs · Post by **svervs** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:41 pm

No problem with the license model.

mevla · Post by **mevla** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:45 pm

Hanz Meyzer wrote:
OFFTOPIC Renoise is another story, they sell their avant-garde DAW for an apple and an egg. Maybe because they cannot manage a constant updating. Still 100% worth the money (even if I whined a lot on their forums).

But then to get people into Renoise takes a lot. I mean, hexadecimal input for FX ? Not easy to charge a lot when users have to input data in hex. Still Renoise has very good aspects although I find using Redux in Bitwig more useful nowadays. The easiness with which Bitwig handles moving things around makes it much easier to concetrate on the music. Still, lots of respect for Renoise/Redux. But it looks like it's getting abandoned.

Coockie1176ln · Post by **Coockie1176ln** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:47 pm

astartes wrote:I´ve seen the same negativity as Cakewalk came with their new Payment Plan.
Sceptical at first i jumped Ship as soon as they introduced monthly Payment and never regetted that Descision.
(Sonar is, besides Bitwig, the second DAW i use, mostly as a Recording device and for it´s simulation of Analogue gear included in the Software. Syncing with Bitwig is fantastic btw. Sonar can run as Clock Slave to BWS and works without any Problems that way).

My biggest concern atm is the annual Price.... could be that i´m not able to update until December when my extra Payment for Christmas comes. An Option for paying monthly would be handy for some (maybe).

That said: I have worked with a similar Payment system once... and if Bitwig are able to Push BWS forward as Cakewalk was with Sonar after they had the fredom to fire out even Mayor Features without the need to wait for a "Big" number Update then BWS will grow fast and grow strong.

yeah agree. more options to pay not one at all time cost, but montly, every third year, half month or per year subscription: It might not be called subscription because you get the latest version. but i guess the issue is if you want montly u can stop payment and start later and get all latest update for just 1 months payment. not sure its what they want

SpaceTraffic · Post by **SpaceTraffic** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:50 pm

I use renoise from time to time... and I love the feeling that you being the only one using it, or a handful of fox. Biggest fear when software goes greed or hipster... but there are fire shouls all over the world - like JJOS, Renoise, etc etc.

xbitz · Post by **xbitz** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:52 pm

TristanMendoza wrote:
dom@bitwig wrote:
Coockie1176ln wrote:Dom what reasons for this decision?
Does it have to do with online collaburation and sevrer maintance or why would you change payment? I belive everybody thinks you guys disslike this. Please tell us why.
One of the main reasons is that we now can introduce bigger features a lot more often with small updates instead of collecting and holding them back for major releases like a 2.0 or a 3.0 - it might worry some when reading this, but i'm totally looking forward to it as it actually is a nice change because it will allow us to grow Bitwig Studio on a way more regular basis and introduce exciting stuff a lot more often and frequently.

Cheers,
Dom

PHY6: As i suggested, please get in contact with the support team for the details and we can try to find a solution, makes no sense to dive in to every single personal issue in a forum thread. Thanks!
I can appreciate, and respect this reasoning. Not a totally bad idea. At least the ability to use the program wont go away if you don't pay, like some other programs. I had the mix for my album, and a friends album in another program and I had to renew my license to even gain access to our own pieces of work. It wasnt super long, but it did put things at a standstill and it does make you kinda nervous.

and why not choose the Steinberg way, periodically with skippable .5 builds (mainly with collapsed user requested features, in this case everybody would buy it and would be superhappy) then the big ones with new features ? (although I dunno how complex parallel adding bugfixes to both builds )

shaboogen · Post by **shaboogen** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:52 pm

I have no qualms with the license model in terms of paying for new features, but including bug fixes seems a tad predatory. Not going to jump off the deep end or anything, but in practice if you guys can't deliver bug free code of the original feature set within 12 months of release and then will force costs on folks when you do, that's not going to end well for you.

Lastly, please don't call this move brave. It's a move, you're entitled to make it, but calling it brave has shades of the same inane hubris that Apple had when they announced the headphone port change. Ridiculous.

Thanks
D.S

turbo_kev · Post by **turbo_kev** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:03 pm

(1) if I choose to stay with V1, does that mean I am stuck with it, with all the bugs
once V2 is released, if I don't upgrade,

(2) will there be a list of bugs that have been fixed from V1 in V2 before I upgrade
so I can see if its worth upgrading

(3) with all the new controllers out there, will they give more time to improving api´s
so that script devs such as Moss etc etc can carry on with there good work. I for 1 have a Launchpad pro
and according to moss the problems I have are to do with the api, so for me its a major deal
because if I use my LPP with abelton it just works

(4) will they tell us what they are going to improve with the midi side of things

these are the things I want answer to before I upgrade

cheers
kev

panox80 · Post by **panox80** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:10 pm

nice..so now we have dlc in audio software??

Telengard666 · Post by **Telengard666** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:17 pm

My main problem is it should be backdated. If I bought my copy say July 12 2016, I should have a upgrade license until July 12,2017. So anyone who bought it after Feb 28th would be able to upgrade. That would make some sense.

larsomat · Post by **larsomat** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:34 pm

Looking forward to the 2.0 Upgrade. Will buy it for sure.

After that I'll have 12 months to see if it's worth to stick with the pricing model. If Bitwig delivers, I'm perfectly fine with it. If it doesn't, I won't renew.

It takes a bit getting used to, but I'm willing to give it a try...

This puts a lot of pressure on Bitwig. If they don't deliver amazing new features in the next 12 months, people won't renew their licence. A fair deal, if you ask me.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:36 pm

SpaceTraffic wrote:A sidetrack, if you hate adobe Photoshop license you MUST get Affinity Photo - same dopeness and cheaper than Renoise... !!! !!! Just saying, to help you out. I know what I'm talking about since I've used photoshop since 1997.

Yeah, both Affinity Photo and Designer are awesome astonishingly cheap. But I guess they have a much wider audience and can compensate through sheer number of users compared to a DAW.

Cheers,

Tom

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:39 pm

This would be ok if there where no bugs and solid and complete implementations - which is not realistic.(look at any software product - or look at touch implementation in Bitwig - the best out there on Windows but gets unusable when it comes to automation editing, sampler editing, etc)

So saying that you can look for features and then upgrade - how to find out if it is bug-free enough or feature complete enough. Look on forums (where for any product you get the impression that there are too many issues anyways)?

160 is too much for yearly payments IMHO. Tracktion is pretty much 30 per year - ok, .... On Mac I pay 199 for a version of Logic (well for Logic Pro X I personally payed 130 or so ....) - per version - not per year - and with X we got quite some features with 10.1 and 10.2 ....

I think that amount is unreasonable - might be ok for some customers, my guess is - it will hurt too many.

I would suggest - bring the price down significantly, charge for yearly support-plans for those who need it - (how often did I contact support for any software? neglectable - maybe include two issues per year - have dedicated more expensive plans for those who need it.)

Just my opinion.

best

digitalfix · Post by **digitalfix** » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:43 pm

I love Bitwig. I'll buy in.

If you're not happy buying in now and you don't want to "feel like a beta tester", then wait. Get the demo in 12 / 18 / 24 months time and if it works for you, then get it at that point and don't install any updates until you're ready to. Effectively, you're then paying for the development that's gone on up to when you purchase and you're not betting on the future. This works out at a far better value proposition, especially if you're a new user.

Bitwig

KVR Audio

License model no way !!!