Bitwig 2.0

[Cyclomatic]

So the new modulation slots are only for the Bitwig 2 native modulation devices? I couldn't throw Xfer LFOTool in there or something?

Also not at all a fan of the subscription model, unless it's only for major version upgrades (like 2 -> 3; not 2.1.4 to 2.1.5).

The other stuff seems cool.

[T71]

Right, schedules do slip and get pushed around. However, I think thats the plus with the new upgrade model. You're getting new features as they're completed. Claes could make some random cool shit over the weekend, make sure it doesn't clash and make bugs, and then release it that next week. Rather than "okay, we have all these cool new features and devices, but now were just waiting until the online collab is done so we can release all of it as 2.0" and that one online collab feature holds back everything else they have.
Doesn't that sound cool?? The devs are like content creators themselves now. Whenever theres something new they have, they can give it to us almost immediately.

How does Bitwig changing their purchasing model and their semantics make regular feature updates any more likely?

[TristanMendoza]

So the new modulation slots are only for the Bitwig 2 native modulation devices? I couldn't throw Xfer LFOTool in there or something?

Also not at all a fan of the subscription model, unless it's only for major version upgrades (like 2 -> 3; not 2.1.4 to 2.1.5).

The other stuff seems cool.

Its not technically a subscription model. You own the program, they cant take it away from you. You can pay for more constant updates though. New and improved features, bug fixes, everything. Its not just for major updates, its for ALL updates that could possibly be made to Bitwig.

As for the first question, LFO Tool is a signal processor, not a Bitwig native modulator, so it has no way of modulating anything. However, you could have Bitwig modulators, inside of LFO Tool modulating its parameters if you wanted to.

[TristanMendoza]

Right, schedules do slip and get pushed around. However, I think thats the plus with the new upgrade model. You're getting new features as they're completed. Claes could make some random cool shit over the weekend, make sure it doesn't clash and make bugs, and then release it that next week. Rather than "okay, we have all these cool new features and devices, but now were just waiting until the online collab is done so we can release all of it as 2.0" and that one online collab feature holds back everything else they have.
Doesn't that sound cool?? The devs are like content creators themselves now. Whenever theres something new they have, they can give it to us almost immediately.

How does Bitwig changing their purchasing model and their semantics make regular feature updates any more likely?

Thats the pretty much whole point of the upgrade model. As stated on their website and by Dom himself here on the forum.

[ere2learn]

I'll just see what way the demo goes,if its good enough I'll upgrade & reevaluate after 12 months

But I cant see new users buying into this & forking out more money after 12 months at current prices

[ezelkow1]

Right, schedules do slip and get pushed around. However, I think thats the plus with the new upgrade model. You're getting new features as they're completed. Claes could make some random cool shit over the weekend, make sure it doesn't clash and make bugs, and then release it that next week. Rather than "okay, we have all these cool new features and devices, but now were just waiting until the online collab is done so we can release all of it as 2.0" and that one online collab feature holds back everything else they have.
Doesn't that sound cool?? The devs are like content creators themselves now. Whenever theres something new they have, they can give it to us almost immediately.

Sure, it sounds cool on the surface, but thats not how software development works. I would much rather have actual architectural thought put in to a change, have it run through actual QA and testing, and know that the feature is more or less complete. No one is some coding god that they will pound out a new feature over a weekend and have it be completely bug free. Also letting an idea simmer, pass around a team, see how it could possibly integrate with other features or maybe cause a redesign of other components, is how proper software design is done.

This subscription change would in no way affect their ability to put in minor changes someone comes up with over a weekend and gets team approval to implement. Its not going to be some gigantic change that they would actually want to save for an entire other version release if it could be done in such a short amount of time. This is basically asking everyone to pay a yearly fee to be a beta tester if they are going to constantly push out incremental updates of very large features. Which again doing that could leave people in a conundrum when their subscription expires with a half-baked feature

[Cyclomatic]

So the new modulation slots are only for the Bitwig 2 native modulation devices? I couldn't throw Xfer LFOTool in there or something?

Also not at all a fan of the subscription model, unless it's only for major version upgrades (like 2 -> 3; not 2.1.4 to 2.1.5).

The other stuff seems cool.

Its not technically a subscription model. You own the program, they cant take it away from you. You can pay for more constant updates though. New and improved features, bug fixes, everything. Its not just for major updates, its for ALL updates that could possibly be made to Bitwig.

Can we get a moratorium on the word "subscription" or "not technically a subscription model"?

It's a subscription model in practice. Bitwig is still a new company and new software and audio engine. There will be bugs. People whose license expired will still want those bugs fixed. People whose license expired will still want aesthetic changes and new Bitwig features that give it more parity with competing DAWs like Ableton Live.

It's very disingenuous to not call this a subscription or license. It's necessarily an annual recurring license for a lot of people.

I think this would be much simpler if they just charged per major release like competitors do. I'd rather wait a year for a bunch of features to be released at once than pay out the ass just to keep my DAW bug-free.

I also see absolutely no evidence that this model would lead to more density or acceleration in feature development. They're using this to justify the subscription model, but it doesn't really make any sense. I doubt that's how things will go in practice. I agree with the other comments that we're basically paying to be beta testers.

Its not going to be some gigantic change that they would actually want to save for an entire other version release if it could be done in such a short amount of time.

Sums it up perfectly. I'm also a software developer, and Bitwig's rationale seems flawed.

[woodsdenis]

Can we get a moratorium on the word "subscription" or "not technically a subscription model"?

It's a subscription model in practice. Bitwig is still a new company and new software and audio engine. There will be bugs. People whose license expired will still want those bugs fixed. People whose license expired will still want aesthetic changes and new Bitwig features that give it more parity with competing DAWs like Ableton Live.

It's very disingenuous to not call this a subscription or license. It's necessarily an annual recurring license for a lot of people.

Exactly, I don't think Dom and the team are rip off artists or trying to scam us, but it doesn't make sense and the argument for it simply consists of being able to roll out feature rather than waiting. I know forums may not be the best barometer of feeling but there doesn't seem to be any positives said on any music forums.

[woodsdenis]

Can we get a moratorium on the word "subscription" or "not technically a subscription model"?

It's a subscription model in practice. Bitwig is still a new company and new software and audio engine. There will be bugs. People whose license expired will still want those bugs fixed. People whose license expired will still want aesthetic changes and new Bitwig features that give it more parity with competing DAWs like Ableton Live.

It's very disingenuous to not call this a subscription or license. It's necessarily an annual recurring license for a lot of people.

Exactly,

I don't think Dom and the team are rip off artists or trying to scam us, but it doesn't make sense and the argument for it simply consists of being able to roll out feature rather than waiting. I know forums may not be the best barometer of feeling but there doesn't seem to be any positives said on any music forums.

[Regnas]

Where is the infamous LAN stuff????

[dckyoto]

Great news about the update!

The year support&updates for the initial purchase price is fine as a model and people are complaining about the past two+ years of free updates and huge amount of added features they got? wtf guys

Let's give Bitwig more money and get even more cool features.

And.. let me get my hands on those modulators right now!

[Echoes in the Attic]

People should go discuss teh license model in one of the license model threads. There's lots to talk about feature-wise in 2.0!

-Finally, unlimited macros!!! I've been wanting this forever. In Live first and then Bitwig in V1. And the way they seem to have integrated it with the device mappings is great. Just what I thought they should do.

-They mention improved sound on their devices. I wonder how different they will be. I thought Polysynth was downright terrible sounding. Curious what the new one will sound like. But I wonder what the changed devices will mean for existing projects. Will they automatically replace them and sound different? not that it will matter for me, since I've never used Polysynth in a track.

-So we have clip fades now, but what about Sampler fades? This was the glaring omission of anything in Bitwig I think. And it should really have a timestretch/granular mode as well. Anybody notice anything about sampler improvements?

-What about touch mode in 2.0? Can we actually edit automation in touch mode so that it's actually usable overall with a pen and tablet?

[anp27]

We still have the open modular system and online collab features to look forward to that are scheduled for version 2.

Yes, what I meant was the features that weren't announced anywhere yet. Things that I'm really hoping for, like movie import. I mean common even Ableton has movie import. I just wanted to know whether that is coming in the near future. Or whether I should finally stop hoping.

Also, don't feel bad for using other tools to get certain jobs done. Yeah I use Bitwig for writing, but almost all the synths I use are 3rd party. I use the occasional Polysynth (which btw received a killer update in 2.0) but typically I use 3rd party plugins. If Im recording, or mixing anything I wrote inside of Bitwig, I do it in Pro Tools HD.

However no DAW is perfect, and Bitwig certainly isn't behind any curve.

I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to do everything in one DAW. Logic is almost perfect for my needs. It has movie import, audio comping and of course the usual suspects. The crazy thing is that I don't like the dark GUI (I know, I know, you can change this by hacking) among other things. I absolutely love Bitwig's interface, it is perfect to me. In fact, Bitwig in general is near perfect to me, but it doesn't have movie import. If I didn't rely on working to movie as part of my job, I would really do everything in Bitwig right now. In fact I actually do write, mix and master my own stuff in Bitwig exclusively.. when I don't need to score to picture that is.

Thanks for your reply though, I really do appreciate your comments. At the moment, I'm leaning on probably updating to 2.0, experiencing their new model for a year and take it from there. I'll have 12 months to see whether the new model works for me or not. I saw that post from Thomas about the new MTC feature in 2.0 and how it has enabled him to slave Cubase to Bitwig for his movie scoring needs. So that gives me hope at least. I could probably live without audio comping and just continue using Logic when I need that feature. Not the end of the world.

[T71]

Right, schedules do slip and get pushed around. However, I think thats the plus with the new upgrade model. You're getting new features as they're completed. Claes could make some random cool shit over the weekend, make sure it doesn't clash and make bugs, and then release it that next week. Rather than "okay, we have all these cool new features and devices, but now were just waiting until the online collab is done so we can release all of it as 2.0" and that one online collab feature holds back everything else they have.
Doesn't that sound cool?? The devs are like content creators themselves now. Whenever theres something new they have, they can give it to us almost immediately.

How does Bitwig changing their purchasing model and their semantics make regular feature updates any more likely?

Thats the pretty much whole point of the upgrade model. As stated on their website and by Dom himself here on the forum.

I read that. I just have a hard time believing they will roll anything out faster, based on the past. I mean, what has stopped them from adding many features so far? I can only assume it's cash flow.

[norv]

Love Bitwig but HATE HATE HATE subscriptions.
99.9% of the time that's a deal-breaker for me.