License model no way !!!

[SpaceTraffic]

I hear you! Sorry I missread you! Interesting you have the Mpc background as well, u still use it? I have the 1000 now with JJOS 3. Pretty stable. What are you going back to, Ableton? I would miss the big beautiful edit window in Bitwig, specially when trucking around with breaks and samples. Peace!

Np man it's all peace. I'm not hating too much on Bitwig, I just won't pay the money on principal, but I hope Bitwig 2 is great. I don't use the MPC anymore, it was great for it's time, I also had a 1000 for a while... pad controllers and such... now I'm using Push 2 with Ableton... I was frustrated with Ableton for ages but they seem to have addressed my major issues, I would love to jump from Ableton TBH....

Yeah I'm going back and forth with Ableton as well. Been an Ableton user since 2005-2006. Ever tried Renoise? Dope DAW, I started with trackers in the middle 90s. The MPC changed it all thou, til I found out about Ableton 05-06 - somewhat I thought it looked Atari! Take care! I'm going off line for a week or two - making beats. Peace y'all!

[humanbeingbeing]

also I'd like to add that I think the license model is fine for new users. 1.0 owners and especially early adopters (like myself who bought Bitwig 1.0 on day 1) should be grandfathered in, at least a free year.. for the wasted year.

[mevla]

I am happy to see software improvements... but Bitwig 1 IMO was a disaster and I will not pay more money to experiment with version 2, I hope it's great but I will let others take that risk... , I got burned with 1, wasted my money, [...]

Then why are you still here ? Does not make sense. You obviously do not make music using Bitwig.

If this was a political/news forum I'd avance paid shrills.

I do not make music with Bitwig.

I am here because I heard about version 2.0.

I wrote on this board because I am not happy with them asking for more money.

I learned my lesson with 1.0... I'm also used to the fanboy defense on forums, go head, my 2 cents have been given.

Paid shrill doesn't make sense, post history.

Obviously. It was a metaphor of sorts, in the plural form, one of those ironic nuances that do not come across well I presume. Still, if I am not using a software and I don't like it and I've wasted money on it, I wouldn't be around at their next major update mostly because I would already be happy making music with what I have and use. Going back 3 years later at a major release to again put it down ? A mystery of human beings: that kind of experience memory.

[humanbeingbeing]

Obviously. It was a metaphor of sorts, in the plural form, one of those ironic nuances that do not come across well I presume. Still, if I am not using a software and I don't like it and I've wasted money on it, I wouldn't be around at their next major update mostly because I would already be happy making music with what I have and use. Going back 3 years later at a major release to again put it down ? A mystery of human beings: that kind of experience memory.

Look I hear ya, but I don't follow your logic... I can see that you like to use metaphors but what I write can be taken quite literally. If I waste time and money on a product that didn't live up to my expectations (which it didn't), its logical that I would be interested in version 2, I do not understand your point of being 'already happy' making music, products get revised we buy new things and I'm not happy with my 1.0 license. I do not need to put the product down and I don't need to rely on experience memory, everything is documented and recorded on this forum...

I understand your soliloquy, but I've got to say thats the first time I've seen 'paid shrill' used as a metaphor, sorry 'shrills' plural...

[fierywater]

I wonder if anyone here would be happier if it was 2 years of updates rather than 1?

Much. I wouldn't question it at all.

[lucaluca]

Even if Bitwig is innovating and proposing new features the price for updating after 12 months is exaggerated. You can compare to other sequencers and see for yourself. Bitwig is almost the most expensive DAW to update with this new license model.

I don't see how they could add enough features to justify the update cost. At this price i'm out and regret purchasing Bitwig with the black friday deal since i wasn't expecting such a hefty upgrade fee shortly after. I bought it before 10 december. And of course i was counting on new features but guess it won't be for me.

I'm already an Ableton and Studio one user. Can't justify the added cost to maintain Bitwig. I just hope i'm not stuck with a bug that breaks my workflow if i keep on using version 1.

For a newcomer in the competitive DAW space it seems very optimistic to expect users to cough up so much for an update. I hope many people will vote with their wallet against this new license model. The ratio price / months seems really like a bad value proposition for me.

Reaper, Fl Studio are much better value propositions.

Reaper is incredibly powerfull, stable, tweakable and a lot more cheaper to maintain. 60 $ for a complete license that last 2 full versions => example from v 5 to v 6.99 which is equivalent to at least 3 years.
Fl Studio gets you free updates for life and is a very good DAW that is very forward thinking and cheaper to buy. Cubase, Sonar and Studio one are very competent DAW's that have proven themselves in the pro space while being more stable then Bitwig and they are also less expensive to update.


I'll wait and see how this evolves and would advise other users not to support this license model with the 169 $ pricepoint.

[mevla]

Reaper, Fl Studio are much better value propositions.

Value is one thing. Do they offer the same creative possibilities ? What I mean is, I do not use Bitwig to mix. For mixing I use an audio console metaphor, one that is basically an audio console with editing capabilities. And one that provides circuit emulation of a well-known EQ for each track. But to create, to sketch, to play around, to arrange, to be able to play clips and scenes, using a Launchpad for instance, and to be able to record this performance as an arrangement basis I use Bitwig. The audio console metaphor simply does not provide that.

If I was using Windows or Mac I presume Ableton would be the next choice, from what I can see. Are the ones you mention, Sonar, Reaper, Studio One and Cubase also providing the same, or even better, creative possibilities for composing music ?

[mevla]

Look I hear ya, but I don't follow your logic... I can see that you like to use metaphors but what I write can be taken quite literally. If I waste time and money on a product that didn't live up to my expectations (which it didn't), its logical that I would be interested in version 2, I do not understand your point of being 'already happy' making music, products get revised we buy new things and I'm not happy with my 1.0 license. I do not need to put the product down and I don't need to rely on experience memory, everything is documented and recorded on this forum...

I understand your soliloquy, but I've got to say thats the first time I've seen 'paid shrill' used as a metaphor, sorry 'shrills' plural...

Fair enough, you still have an interest in Bitwig. So it was not a total disaster per se as you are still looking up to it. Maybe you see that it could bring some possibilities to your current workflow. Maybe if it wasn't for this new licensing you'd give it a try. All good. As for trying things, I got the T7 DAW not long ago and plan to get into it to pursue some features that might be good to add to the current workflow.

Sometimes we just focus on a few statements made by someone. The 'shrill' term used tongue-in-cheek is from political observations in some forums, totally unrelated to music and is not to be seen in the context of business competition. Probably.

[humanbeingbeing]

Look I hear ya, but I don't follow your logic... I can see that you like to use metaphors but what I write can be taken quite literally. If I waste time and money on a product that didn't live up to my expectations (which it didn't), its logical that I would be interested in version 2, I do not understand your point of being 'already happy' making music, products get revised we buy new things and I'm not happy with my 1.0 license. I do not need to put the product down and I don't need to rely on experience memory, everything is documented and recorded on this forum...

I understand your soliloquy, but I've got to say thats the first time I've seen 'paid shrill' used as a metaphor, sorry 'shrills' plural...

Fair enough, you still have an interest in Bitwig. So it was not a total disaster per se as you are still looking up to it. Maybe you see that it could bring some possibilities to your current workflow. Maybe if it wasn't for this new licensing you'd give it a try. All good. As for trying things, I got the T7 DAW not long ago and plan to get into it to pursue some features that might be good to add to the current workflow.

Sometimes we just focus on a few statements made by someone. The 'shrill' term used tongue-in-cheek is from political observations in some forums, totally unrelated to music and is not to be seen in the context of business competition. Probably.

[humanbeingbeing]

Look I hear ya, but I don't follow your logic... I can see that you like to use metaphors but what I write can be taken quite literally. If I waste time and money on a product that didn't live up to my expectations (which it didn't), its logical that I would be interested in version 2, I do not understand your point of being 'already happy' making music, products get revised we buy new things and I'm not happy with my 1.0 license. I do not need to put the product down and I don't need to rely on experience memory, everything is documented and recorded on this forum...

I understand your soliloquy, but I've got to say thats the first time I've seen 'paid shrill' used as a metaphor, sorry 'shrills' plural...

Fair enough, you still have an interest in Bitwig. So it was not a total disaster per se as you are still looking up to it. Maybe you see that it could bring some possibilities to your current workflow. Maybe if it wasn't for this new licensing you'd give it a try. All good. As for trying things, I got the T7 DAW not long ago and plan to get into it to pursue some features that might be good to add to the current workflow.

Sometimes we just focus on a few statements made by someone. The 'shrill' term used tongue-in-cheek is from political observations in some forums, totally unrelated to music and is not to be seen in the context of business competition. Probably.

Yeah you'd summed up my feelings... I'm very interested in Bitwig as I was for version 1. I mean I still remember that coming soon video that was up for years, memories play a big part in this, and even when it finally came out I got so fed up with it that I walked away, as soon as Ableton got automation compensation it seriously took the shine off Bitwig.. I basically decided to wait for 2, but now it seems we have to pay more... it's unrealistic, I'd be an idiot to fall for it again.... for me I'm all about solid workflow that doesn't kill my creativity... I don't think we need to labor over the past, I'm willing to get over it, but a new license for 2.0 feels extremely inappropriate, I feel like I paid to beta test. If they wise up and respect those early users I'll give it a go, I want to be Bitwig's biggest fan, but I'm forced to be extremely skeptical... I mean when I read 2.0 was still alpha I immediately thought, it's probably not going to come out for a year anyway.... if Bitwig wants me to give it another chance they can't charge me for it again.

[Lejurai]

How about a Reaper style license ?

If you earn money from Bitwig full price, If you don't make money half price.

If the bitwig team can't trust the honesty of it's users then limit the amount of tracks on the half price version to accommodate the hobbyist.

Cripple the software? Hell no. They already have 8track for that.

Not really a cripple as you would still have all features, might need to do more work to bounce tracks down, If it's a hobby then you don't have deadlines to meet.

Yeah that's a real way to treat a hobbyist

[Lejurai]

I am so surprised at the whining here.
Bitwig developers have included many features in this update.
They have a business plan to deliver more, as fast as possible.
Instead of saying "Thank you," many whine about $13 a month!
Spotify is $12 a month, for other people's music.
Count your blessings.

Well I already have my monthly loan shortenings, netflix, serum splice plan, digitally imported premium.. I don't really need ANOTHER monthly cost. Yes, I know bws will be one time payment atm but my point is that I have other expences that are more important and therefore, will drop bws out. Well I could stop that DI premium but it's 8€/month. Won't buy me bitwig.

[larsomat]

Newsflash: Things cost money!

[Lejurai]

Your point?

[dnbhallifax]

pause..... Meno ..... paws .... Men-Oh .....