Bitwig 2.0

[sagetone]

Just chiming in on this. You know what's a great "subscription" model?
ReNoise, you buy v3.7 you get upgrades to 4.7. This of course relies on the honesty of the developers, but isn't at all rigged into a time based model, because let's face flat facts, no software company ever has or ever will complete all planned upgrades on a time scale that customers expect. This model also allows for the software developer to 'speed up' or slow down development on their own schedule, not beholden to upgrade schedules. It also allows for a customer that just bought v1.3 a month ago etc. to get updates until v2.3.

This is a great idea!

+1

I really like tying to version numbers and not bounding to a 12 month schedule.

[klavierr]

I think that the features introduced in this version are awesome and I can't wait until release! And after mulling it over for a bit I still feel a little bit uneasy about the subscription model, I think what I'm going to do is pay for 1 year on release day, then continue to use BWS for that year THEN determine if it's worth enough for paying for another year. I think that's whats good about this is that you can (kinda) back out at any time.

My biggest complaint is that the price seems... really steep. 170 dollars a *year* doesn't sit with me. I would gladly pay maybe 100 a year, MAYBE 120, but 170... I understand that the devs need money in order to keep going but that figure is a bit daunting, and I'm speculating but that high of a price might mean the existing userbase for BWS isn't as big as we think it is, so the devs are compensating somewhat? Who knows.

I still love BWS and it's my primary DAW for everything, runs solid as a rock on my win7 machine with no problems and I adore the workflow, so I'm gonna give this a shot first and see how I like it. I can always jump ship to Cubase and/or continue to use BWS at whatever feb 2018 leaves me off at.

[Lejurai]

I just went through new devices and modulators. I really start to feel bad for people at BWS. There's obviously some thought and planning and seriously great stuff coming at 2.0.

Why didn't they ask from the customers, what would they think about this subs plan? Some simple email enquiry? Or at least some kvr poll?
Or given some surveymonkey options that "which of these upgrade models would be the best in your opinion"?

It's not late to do that you know.. people at bws.. I'm waiting..

Just making this kind of announcement was obviously a huge mistake, but it's ok. I forgive you. All you need to do, is to fix it

[nortle]

I just went through new devices and modulators. I really start to feel bad for people at BWS. There's obviously some thought and planning and seriously great stuff coming at 2.0.

Why didn't they ask from the customers, what would they think about this subs plan? Some simple email enquiry? Or at least some kvr poll?
Or given some surveymonkey options that "which of these upgrade models would be the best in your opinion"?

It's not late to do that you know.. people at bws.. I'm waiting..

Just making this kind of announcement was obviously a huge mistake, but it's ok. I forgive you. All you need to do, is to fix it

Why is BMW not making surveys what price their customer want?

[nocompromise]

Sorry for cross posting this (is that the right term?) but thought it necessary due to apparent deleted posts and whatnot.....

I too am very disappointed. I too feel cheated. I too feel used.

The software in not up to production standards. I do not mean it crashes all the time. I mean it is not suitable for full time production in a commercial studio. I do not own or work in such anymore but I expect my tools to be of that quality. I was led to believe 2.0 would be that. Of course that might be wishful thinking on my part as I'm not sure that was ever promised? Others more eloquent than me have gone into it all in more detail on the various threads here on KVR so I won't comment on that any further.

It is such a shame as it has (had?) fantastic potential. Bitwig was a tool for forward thinking creatives. It could / should have allowed us to make music impossible by any other means. I am not saying it cannot be used, only that its full potential has not been realised yet and may never be.

As creatives we can not tolerate this decision. Instead of letting us change the music industry and change the world, we have been abused by the capitalist monster - "the man" again. Don't get me wrong I am no communist, I too need to make money, I too need to live.

If Bitwig had said we are in financial difficulty and we need an influx of cash, most likely all of us would have been willing to pay 169€ to keep you afloat. Even if it was for more vapourware promises.

As it is I am happy for all those willing to gamble some more cash. That is your decision but you need to stop trying to change the opinion of those not happy with the situation. We have our reasons and they are many. Just as you have your reasons for sticking with it. You use it and that is fantastic. We are not trying to change your minds, have the same courtesy.

I may jump back onboard at some later time if the software ever gets production ready. I doubt that will be the case though. I will have to stick with Ableton Live for the next few years, which I was actually trying to leave for Bitwig. Oh well.

In the three years to come I will get even more proficient with Ableton Live. I will use it for gigs. It will work just fine.

Most likely Ableton will have an announcement in the next few days that provide some explanation of Bitwig's decision. Certainly Ableton will give us most of the functionality you promise before you do.

I will buy Logic again and use that as a second DAW. I will buy Xfer Serum as I want to support Steve for his fantastic synth and forward thinking as an individual and company. You have now lost my support and many others too.

As of now the poll shows 40% (99 people) who took it, willing to jump ship. How many potential sales will this be you will lose. How long will the bad taste stay with us?

I feel sorry for Panorama as I bought a P1 too. I wanted to support a small forward thinking company, the very reason I jumped onboard Bitwig. They will most likely not have any more custom from me due to your decision. How many other people are in the same situation? I only hope they now open it up to be used fully in Ableton.

Lastly, I am of course going to tell not just every musician, buy every person I know and meet in the future about this. You have not only lost income from me but also potential income from tens or hundreds or thousands of people. I feel you cannot sustain that.

[.jon]

The software in not up to production standards. I do not mean it crashes all the time. I mean it is not suitable for full time production in a commercial studio.

Hmm, what in particular makes you think so? I think it's perfectly viable for production, but I don't have much experience with it.

[Lejurai]

Why is BMW not making surveys what price their customer want?

Why does a lot of other companies make queries "how much you'd be willing to pay from a service/product like this"?

And I wasn't aiming for the price directly (with that query) but the whole picture. There at least they could see if the customers want, that new features only come in major versions and only bugfixes between them.. Why force some other model then?

They're not alone (yet) in this so why not ask? I wouldn't dare to buy a car or house without asking my wifes opinion first. She's cut my nuts off and feed them to me.

Relationship between musician and a DAW is kinda marriage afterall

[pboy]

The software in not up to production standards. I do not mean it crashes all the time. I mean it is not suitable for full time production in a commercial studio.

Hmm, what in particular makes you think so? I think it's perfectly viable for production, but I don't have much experience with it.

I have an example of that! In my work situation I often use quite big templates loaded with more than thirty instances of the Kontakt sampler. Typically a template uses around 20 GB RAM, which is why I use a computer pimped up to 32 GB. The artistic concept is to mimic a symphonic orchestra. With Bitwig my templates load up with several Kontakt instances empty, giving me the error message "the plugin could not be loaded". Out of curiosity I tried to replicate my big template in Ableton Live and found that Live does indeed load the template with all Kontakt instances ok and ready to play. I simply can't afford the extra time it takes me to go through my template and reload a handful Kontakt instances every time I'm launching the application. So at the moment I'm planning to work in Live until maybe BWS 2.0 deals with this issue.

[Semipro]

I will buy Xfer Serum as I want to support Steve for his fantastic synth and forward thinking as an individual and company. You have now lost my support and many others too.

You should wait before to judge, maybe polysynth 2 is as good as Serum let's see

[.jon]

The software in not up to production standards. I do not mean it crashes all the time. I mean it is not suitable for full time production in a commercial studio.

Hmm, what in particular makes you think so? I think it's perfectly viable for production, but I don't have much experience with it.

I have an example of that! In my work situation I often use quite big templates loaded with more than thirty instances of the Kontakt sampler. Typically a template uses around 20 GB RAM, which is why I use a computer pimped up to 32 GB. The artistic concept is to mimic a symphonic orchestra. With Bitwig my templates load up with several Kontakt instances empty, giving me the error message "the plugin could not be loaded". Out of curiosity I tried to replicate my big template in Ableton Live and found that Live does indeed load the template with all Kontakt instances ok and ready to play. I simply can't afford the extra time it takes me to go through my template and reload a handful Kontakt instances every time I'm launching the application. So at the moment I'm planning to work in Live until maybe BWS 2.0 deals with this issue.

Thanks, that's good info, and one of the aspects that can't be evaluated with the demo version

[pdxindy]

if you are new to Bitwig, you pay 379€ + 169€ + 169€ for a continuously updated license within 3 years. 717€ in total.

I am not particularly upset about the new pricing model. Because it is not a subscription. For me, subscription means I lose ability to use it if I do not pay. I refuse to do that. But this is different. I can choose when to upgrade or not like always.

So after 12 months, I will wait. Maybe 6 months goes by before something I want is added. Maybe a year. In that case, I have no need to pay for the next 12 months until I am ready.

[pdxindy]

I think that the features introduced in this version are awesome and I can't wait until release! And after mulling it over for a bit I still feel a little bit uneasy about the subscription model, I think what I'm going to do is pay for 1 year on release day, then continue to use BWS for that year THEN determine if it's worth enough for paying for another year. I think that's whats good about this is that you can (kinda) back out at any time.

My biggest complaint is that the price seems... really steep. 170 dollars a *year* doesn't sit with me. I would gladly pay maybe 100 a year, MAYBE 120, but 170... I understand that the devs need money in order to keep going but that figure is a bit daunting, and I'm speculating but that high of a price might mean the existing userbase for BWS isn't as big as we think it is, so the devs are compensating somewhat? Who knows.

I still love BWS and it's my primary DAW for everything, runs solid as a rock on my win7 machine with no problems and I adore the workflow, so I'm gonna give this a shot first and see how I like it. I can always jump ship to Cubase and/or continue to use BWS at whatever feb 2018 leaves me off at.

Yeah, the $170 does seem a bit high... but since I can keep using the latest version I have when the 12 months runs out, I expect that I will wait at that point. It could be many months before something that interests me is added. Since there is no reason to pay until that point. I am comfortable with that concept.

Regarding 2.0 modulation... this looks pretty good... all the new modulators, the ability to use them more freely and that some modulators can work polyphonically is the big news for me.

This plus crossfades, Remote Controls and better Hardware support means I expect to upgrade to 2.0. I might wait a few months after it is officially released and let some bug fixes happen before I start the 12 month period. I expect to be able to manage it to my own satisfaction.

[mellotronaut]

if you are new to Bitwig, you pay 379€ + 169€ + 169€ for a continuously updated license within 3 years. 717€ in total.

I am not particularly upset about the new pricing model. Because it is not a subscription. For me, subscription means I lose ability to use it if I do not pay. I refuse to do that. But this is different. I can choose when to upgrade or not like always.

So after 12 months, I will wait. Maybe 6 months goes by before something I want is added. Maybe a year. In that case, I have no need to pay for the next 12 months until I am ready.

are you aware of the bugfix/os problem? will they go back and fix bugs in former versions of Bitwig 2 after the yearly payment? what if you want to use a new os, which is not yet supported by "your" version?
is Bitwig your main daw? i went from Reason 6.5 to 9, because it wasn't my main daw and if there was no discount on the upgrade on Amazon, i wouldn't have upgraded anyway. Ableton is my main daw. i'm sure, i'll upgrade immediately, when v. 10 is out. from then on, i have 2 to 3 1/2 years time to get fixes and new features without having to pay again and again. even the Steinberg formula is cheaper than the Bitwig one.
i tried to compare prices in the comment, you cited, but you dropped the comparison. the comparison was mainly for the Bitwig guys to change their minds.

[pdxindy]

if you are new to Bitwig, you pay 379€ + 169€ + 169€ for a continuously updated license within 3 years. 717€ in total.

I am not particularly upset about the new pricing model. Because it is not a subscription. For me, subscription means I lose ability to use it if I do not pay. I refuse to do that. But this is different. I can choose when to upgrade or not like always.

So after 12 months, I will wait. Maybe 6 months goes by before something I want is added. Maybe a year. In that case, I have no need to pay for the next 12 months until I am ready.

are you aware of the bugfix/os problem? will they go back and fix bugs in former versions of Bitwig 2 after the yearly payment? what if you want to use a new os, which is not yet supported by "your" version?
is Bitwig your main daw? i went from Reason 6.5 to 9, because it wasn't my main daw and if there was no discount on the upgrade on Amazon, i wouldn't have upgraded anyway. Ableton is my main daw. i'm sure, i'll upgrade immediately, when v. 10 is out. from then on, i have 2 to 3 1/2 years time to get fixes and new features without having to pay again and again. even the Steinberg formula is cheaper than the Bitwig one.
i tried to compare prices in the comment, you cited, but you dropped the comparison. the comparison was mainly for the Bitwig guys to change their minds.

You are welcome to feel about it however you like... just giving my thoughts.

The thing that really bothers me... is software that stops working when I stop paying (subscription). This is not that... so I am willing to see how this goes. Maybe after a couple iterations, I will come to dislike it... or not.

But this pricing model is not going to make or break Bitwig for me (subscription would have). It is how good 2.0 is. Will it be solid? Or will there be lots of stability problems? Are the new features impressively implemented? These are the things that will decide Bitwig's fate for me... not the pricing model.

[mooneh]

The new modulators and hardware CV modules looks really promising hope they work more in this direction.
I would like to see an advanced step sequencer like the piano roll but more fun and faster to use with mutes, gate length, repeat step x times, micro timing, micro pitch, cc and cv modulation and so on. Why is this so overlooked in software one thing that could be made great but I dont think theres anything close to cirklon.