License model no way !!!

[humanbeingbeing]

Exactly. Nothing to say.

[digitalfix]

I think that Devogenes is referring to Tentacles' post.

[humanbeingbeing]

I think that Devogenes is referring to Tentacles' post.

it's obvious that he is referring to someone's post's- but using quotes when he's actually paraphrasing and doing a bad job at that... interpreting Tentacle's post like he did he is quite a stretch... if he wants to quote Tentacle, quote him, don't say 'people'-- also, finally, Dom has already chipped in suggesting Tentacle's is a "sock puppet" account, so addressing him as someone who finds this complicated is futile. To classify this license issue as straightforward is ignorant of multiple posts on this thread. There are smart people commenting here, there is clearly an issue to talk about .

[digitalfix]

Out of curiosity, what would be your preferred license model?

[Michael L]

The only questions people are asking about it is "why isn't it cheaper" and "why do I have to pay more?"

Yes. Thats exactly what I said, bud...40 boring pages ago.

There are smart people commenting here

Well said humanboingboing, but to quote Jesus, "A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own forum."

[humanbeingbeing]

Out of curiosity, what would be your preferred license model?

I've said it before; I also find this a slightly odd question, because this new subscription model is unprecedented AND a sharp deviation from the original model... short answer, Bitwig has yet to prove it can release stable software in a timely fashion, so to pay yearly for that is ridiculous to me... the price doesn't concern me, I would rather pay outright for the 2.0 upgrade like most music software and get bug fixes for the duration of the point release, for free. If it takes them 3 years like version 1 then I get my fixed 2.0, I dont have to pay sub x 3. If they release 3.0 a year from now then I consider whether I jump to 3. I find the subscription model to be absurd given the history of this app. Now if you want to see my arguments for this, read back on the thread.

If they're confident in their release quality they should no problem accommodating this, and what I'm suggesting is not weird, it's what literally everyone else does...

[humanbeingbeing]

The only questions people are asking about it is "why isn't it cheaper" and "why do I have to pay more?"

Yes. Thats exactly what I said, bud...40 boring pages ago.

There are smart people commenting here

Well said humanboingboing, but to quote Jesus, "A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own forum."

How witty.

[digitalfix]

Out of curiosity, what would be your preferred license model?

I've said it before; I also find this a slightly odd question, because this new subscription model is unprecedented AND a sharp deviation from the original model... short answer, Bitwig has yet to prove it can release stable software in a timely fashion, so to pay yearly for that is ridiculous to me... the price doesn't concern me, I would rather pay outright for the 2.0 upgrade like most music software and get bug fixes for the duration of the point release, for free. If it takes them 3 years like version 1 then I get my fixed 2.0, I dont have to pay sub x 3. If they release 3.0 a year from now then I consider whether I jump to 3. I find the subscription model to be absurd given the history of this app. Now if you want to see my arguments for this, read back on the thread.

If they're confident in their release quality they should no problem accommodating this, and what I'm suggesting is not weird, it's what literally everyone else does...

But it's just not true to say "most music software" anymore.
Avid, Ableton, Steinberg, Apple and Cakewalk all have very different models, prices and copying protection.

I had another look at Live Suite's pricing and it's expensive. If you take Live to be Bitwig's main competitor, the new model is very competitive.

Bitwig also only has one serious revenue source where as Ableton also sell Push and various items of merchandise, a book and are probably getting a cut of the packs being sold through their shop.

It's going to boil down to whether, at this stage, you like and trust the product enough to buy into it, hold off, or not buy in at all.

In my case, I haven't had the bad experiences that you have and see the value in the new features. I'm perfectly happy to buy in for the next 12 months. You clearly aren't but no one's forcing you to so what's the big deal?

[Devogenes]

I think that Devogenes is referring to Tentacles' post.

it's obvious that he is referring to someone's post's- but using quotes when he's actually paraphrasing and doing a bad job at that... interpreting Tentacle's post like he did he is quite a stretch...

Jesus Christ you're dense. How many of the 40 pages in this thread are filled with you being vacuous?

Here, hold my hand:

Bitwig needs to step up to the plate and answer questions about the subscription instead of hiding behind it

What exactly is confusing people so much about the licensing arrangement? It seems pretty straight forward to me: if you want updates, keep your subscription active. If you do not need/want updates, let it lapse until you do. Like it or not, what are they "hiding behind"?

I do not think people believe Bitwig is hiding behind anything, maybe some people want to know why but I believe this thread is for voicing opinion on the subject.... I think you're confused as to what is going on here and I can't even find your thread quotes.

[humanbeingbeing]

But it's just not true to say "most music software" anymore.
Avid, Ableton, Steinberg, Apple and Cakewalk all have very different models, prices and copying protection.

Listen if you're gonna say something isn't true.. first do not quote out of context and second, explain yourself. These apps you list all have the same upgrade model. what price and copy protection has to do with it I have no idea.

I had another look at Live Suite's pricing and it's expensive. If you take Live to be Bitwig's main competitor, the new model is very competitive.

I'm getting tired of these replies that seem to miss the point made and then start another one, I have tried to reply to everyone that addresses me but this is absurd.. I made a clear point about the fact that it took Bitwig 3 years to sort out bugs in it's software. I also said the price doesn't bother me.

Bitwig also only has one serious revenue source where as Ableton also sell Push and various items of merchandise, a book and are probably getting a cut of the packs being sold through their shop.

is this the suggestion that we should accept this just because Bitwig has less revenue? I do not care about their revenue streams, this is a market, I am the customer.

It's going to boil down to whether, at this stage, you like and trust the product enough to buy into it, hold off, or not buy in at all.

In my case, I haven't had the bad experiences that you have and see the value in the new features. I'm perfectly happy to buy in for the next 12 months. You clearly aren't but no one's forcing you to so what's the big deal?

Clearly that is the situation... but of course, you don't see a 'big deal' because you're happy. you maybe need to see it from my point of view... first I saw a coming soon video for a 'next generation' DAW that made a lot of promises -- then 2 WHOLE YEARS later finally we get to have a look at it, and I bought it on day 1. I believed the hype, I got my loyalty badge (just a pointless gif apparently), then started to use the app only to find a serious mess of bugs and performance issues --- 30 versions later I keep coming back like an idiot and still find serious problems --- meanwhile, the competitor app Live more than catches up and starts to offer things I've asked for, notably automation compensation--- however I still keep coming back to Bitwig-- only to presented with a new version that doesn't even match the promised features from 2 years prior AND 1.0 is a still not good enough for me, and I'm expected to pay a license fee for the privilege of continuing this experiment/beta test...

You don't see the big deal??? the big deal is that Bitwig wasted my time and actually, 2.0 should be a courtesy release to the early adopters, instead you guys think we should wait another 12 months? Ive waited and waited already... what if 2.0 is the greatest app ever-- the sub makes me unable to buy in, it's not gonna happen because I've been scorched, basically at this stage Bitwig should be trying to keep loyal users on deck instead of serving the people who know no better (there is better) and the newbies who have started writing tracks in the last year, and have no idea about the history of this application/company.

[humanbeingbeing]

vacuous

Look whos been reading his dictionary. The linux DAW user who pays hundreds of dollars for modular power supplies, who falsely uses words like "ironic", and direct quotes things out of mid air and then responds with literally nothing [vacuous]... but I digress hahhaha

Yeah of course what you said and what Tentacles said totally lines up in syntax and context -- nonsense. Man I really want to hear that guitar pedal !!

[Devogenes]

[Orbit-50]

Hey humanbeingbeing, you really need to check this site. It will help you with your problem. I promise!
http://www.whereicanbeme.com/problem-re ... eak-habit/

[humanbeingbeing]

Hey humanbeingbeing, you really need to check this site. It will help you with your problem. I promise!
http://www.whereicanbeme.com/problem-re ... eak-habit/

Nah man, it's not a problem -I love repeating myself over and over and over again.

one thing the fanboys and the detractors have in common is that we're all a glutton for punishment.

[Michael L]

Could people stick to original posts, getting kinda bored with this.

I love repeating myself over and over and over again.