License model no way !!!

[rodanmusic]

Since the recent Logic update, I've started to really think about whether upgrading Bitwig to version V2 is a good idea.

Bitwig cannot compete price-wise with Logic. Logic is unmatched in the DAW world as far as value for price.

Is it really? REAPER $60; Logic X Pro ~$200.

Reaper isn't even in the same league when it comes to included instruments, fx plugins, samples, and even functionality (IMO) so yeah it really is unmatched.

Reaper is a great DAW and I used it extensively, but the included instruments, fx plugins, and other features are very lacking.

[digitalfix]

For the main customer base they are expecting you to pay for fades? (which should really be there as a core feature)

Didn't fades only show up in Live 7 or 8? Either way, I remember it took ages and it was a paid update.

Putting bugs aside at for a moment, I'm curious to know what others feel the major feature Live Standard has over Bitwig 2. I say Standard because it's the closest in price to Bitwig.

[pdxindy]

Since the recent Logic update, I've started to really think about whether upgrading Bitwig to version V2 is a good idea.

Bitwig cannot compete price-wise with Logic. Logic is unmatched in the DAW world as far as value for price.

You're right, they can't compete

I'll leave it for loyal people like yourself...

You may look at commercial choices in personal terms and think of it in terms of loyalty and such, but that is your lens, not mine.

Bitwig is just a product to buy or not, and I'm not 'loyal' to anything abstract like that. Where I have loyalties, it is to real people in my daily life.

I try/buy software all the time that I simply uninstall cause it did not work for me. It is how things are. It is not a big affront, I was not 'abused' by the software makers and so on.

I think a lot of people are lonely in their daily life and these days, they have started acting like they have personal relationships with commercial products. It is really quite sad and dysfunctional.

One of the reasons I purchased Logic is because it was a way to keep using Alchemy. Costly upgrade path for me. I do not feel like Camel Audio f*cked me over, and all that personalized stuff. These are just commercial products.

[greenfly]

Since the recent Logic update, I've started to really think about whether upgrading Bitwig to version V2 is a good idea.

Bitwig cannot compete price-wise with Logic. Logic is unmatched in the DAW world as far as value for price.

You're right, they can't compete

I'll leave it for loyal people like yourself...

You may look at commercial choices in personal terms and think of it in terms of loyalty and such, but that is your lens, not mine.

Bitwig is just a product to buy or not, and I'm not 'loyal' to anything abstract like that. Where I have loyalties, it is to real people in my daily life.

I try/buy software all the time that I simply uninstall cause it did not work for me. It is how things are. It is not a big affront, I was not 'abused' by the software makers and so on.

I think a lot of people are lonely in their daily life and these days, they have started acting like they have personal relationships with commercial products. It is really quite sad and dysfunctional.

One of the reasons I purchased Logic is because it was a way to keep using Alchemy. Costly upgrade path for me. I do not feel like Camel Audio f*cked me over, and all that personalized stuff. These are just commercial products.

You seem very emotional about the product to me. The opinions of others seem to be causing some distress to you causing you to pontificate about loneliness, that peoples comments are becoming tiresome for you etc. Like I said before, please spend your money on Bitwig and make it a great product for me. I will then upgrade at a much cheaper cost to the others who have invested in the development and success of the product.

[greenfly]

For the main customer base they are expecting you to pay for fades? (which should really be there as a core feature)

Didn't fades only show up in Live 7 or 8? Either way, I remember it took ages and it was a paid update.

Putting bugs aside at for a moment, I'm curious to know what others feel the major feature Live Standard has over Bitwig 2. I say Standard because it's the closest in price to Bitwig.

Perhaps I'm spoilt for choice in todays DAW market. In 2017, I see fades as standard functionality.
I understand the community has made a big deal about fades being missing, perhaps because like me they see it as a basic feature and not some kind of innovative feature that it may well have been back in the day when the DAW market was much smaller.

Even when Live 9 introduced fades and automation that could be curved, even then I recall grumblings in the community that it still wasn't as advanced as what is offered by Logic.

[digitalfix]

For the main customer base they are expecting you to pay for fades? (which should really be there as a core feature)

Didn't fades only show up in Live 7 or 8? Either way, I remember it took ages and it was a paid update.

Putting bugs aside at for a moment, I'm curious to know what others feel the major feature Live Standard has over Bitwig 2. I say Standard because it's the closest in price to Bitwig.

Perhaps I'm spoilt for choice in todays DAW market. In 2017, I see fades as standard functionality.
I understand the community has made a big deal about fades being missing, perhaps because like me they see it as a basic feature and not some kind of innovative feature that it may well have been back in the day when the DAW market was much smaller.

Even when Live 9 introduced fades and automation that could be curved, even then I recall grumblings in the community that it still wasn't as advanced as what is offered by Logic.

Yup, the same frustration was had then.

The way I look at it, (I'm repeating myself here) is that when I brought Bitwig, I knew that fades weren't there and therefore figured that there would be a decent chance that I'd end up having to pay for it.

Personally, I look at Bitwig 2 as a positive. I brought in at Live v4 and have gone all the way up to 8 (Suite all the way) before switching to Bitwig. That's must be getting towards £1500 going to Ableton.

I think anyone who's buying Bitwig now, or even brought in at v1, is getting a decent deal. You're paying a price that's competitive to Live Standard and getting a DAW that's better if you compare it feature to feature. Bitwig has achieved a better feature set in a couple of years compared to Ableton which has been considerably longer.

If you look at M4L as being the biggest USP for Suite, Bitwig is still a better deal because you know they've got the modular system already baked in so hopefully, some of the issues with M4L won't exist. I'm fairly confident in this because Bitwig have already said that their existing devices were built in the modular system.

There's also only one version of Bitwig and with the new pricing model, I'm not worried about that changing any time soon so, even though nothing is certain, I'm reasonably confident about what my Bitwig expenditure is going to be over the next few years - at least I know what the maximum amount is likely to be.

If anyone's still looking for hints about Bitwig's priorities, then remember: they've just been to NAMM where they shared a booth with Bastl in a section of the show surrounded by other modular manufacturers. They did the same thing at Superbooth last year. If that doesn't scream "non-traditional DAW" to you then I don't know what does.

[pdxindy]

You seem very emotional about the product to me.

I have zero emotional investment in Bitwig... If you interpret that otherwise, you are projecting your own inner workings on others.

I spend little more time thinking about Bitwig than I do the pair of pliers in my toolbox. (Bitwig needs a little more thought cause it is more complex). It is just a tool. If all the tools I currently have at my disposal disappeared today, I would have no trouble continuing to lead a creative and productive life.

Read up on Edward Bernays. He was a huge influence on the advertising industry... causing it to switch from selling products to selling image and 'lifestyle'. It has had a huge impact... conditioning people to emotional attachment to things (even conceptual things) as part of 'who they are'.

[digitalfix]

You seem very emotional about the product to me.

I have zero emotional investment in Bitwig... If you interpret that otherwise, you are projecting your own inner workings on others.

I spend little more time thinking about Bitwig than I do the pair of pliers in my toolbox. (Bitwig needs a little more thought cause it is more complex). It is just a tool. If all the tools I currently have at my disposal disappeared today, I would have no trouble continuing to lead a creative and productive life.

Read up on Edward Bernays. He was a huge influence on the advertising industry... causing it to switch from selling products to selling image and 'lifestyle'. It has had a huge impact... conditioning people to emotional attachment to things (even conceptual things) as part of 'who they are'.

Really? DAWs are closer to instruments than they are to tools. You're using it to express yourself, not put together Ikea furniture.

It would be more strange not to have some kind of connection in the same way a concert violinist has a connection to their Stradivarius.

[pdxindy]

Really? DAWs are closer to instruments than they are to tools. You're using it to express yourself, not put together Ikea furniture.

It would be more strange not to have some kind of connection in the same way a concert violinist has a connection to their Stradivarius.

I express myself all the time in a variety of ways. No individual tool is all that important to me. I'm the source of creativity, not the tool.

I have some appreciation for the craftsmanship of my cameras and lenses. But I have successfully carried out photography assignments with a point and shoot camera too.

[digitalfix]

But I'm sure you have favourites and prefer the way some work turned out over other work?

[greenfly]

I think a lot of people are lonely in their daily life 

 

so says the person with 11000+ posts and assumes others are projecting their inner workings on others.

[polishbroadcast]

You may look at commercial choices in personal terms and think of it in terms of loyalty and such, but that is your lens, not mine.

Bitwig is just a product to buy or not, and I'm not 'loyal' to anything abstract like that. Where I have loyalties, it is to real people in my daily life.

I try/buy software all the time that I simply uninstall cause it did not work for me. It is how things are. It is not a big affront, I was not 'abused' by the software makers and so on.

I understand the point you are making, and agree you should pick software based on the functionality, but one important distinction is the idea of long-term commitment. If you are going to build your work in an application it's most often proprietary, especially with DAWs. So "loyalty" is a practicality as much as it is artistic. You want to know that something is going to work for the next year (or more) when you commit to that platform/system/paradigm. At least that's how I see it. I have ~8 years of projects in Logic and moving them over is a PITA. Having some general idea of where Bitwig is headed is a nice thing to know if we are going to be together for awhile.

[xerxes[no]]

Great job Bitwig! i really like the subscription model if that helps get features faster. Some people seem to forget this is your livelyhood. Keep it up!

Oh, and 2.0 looks fantastic! Yay for track height fix

[codec17]

I think a lot of people are lonely in their daily life 

 

so says the person with 11000+ posts and assumes others are projecting their inner workings on others.

And there goes my Comp keyboard, drowned in coffee.

[pdxindy]

I think a lot of people are lonely in their daily life 

 

so says the person with 11000+ posts and assumes others are projecting their inner workings on others.

so you think that there aren't lots of people who are lonely? alienated? depressed? Go look at the skyrocketing statistics for pharmaceutical use (among other things)

maybe drop the sarcasm and attempts at one upmanship and just have a conversation.