V11 proposed changes

[MeldaProduction]

It turns out that maybe running the previous versions along with V11 should be possible. Which gives us some room for more hardcore changes, and hopefully we could get rid of some ancient problems. Feel free to provide any feedback folks .
If some of you come with some ideas, that I'd like, I'll change this first post.

#1 - The automation parameter set would be limited

Originally I wanted to remove the automation completely in some plugins and allow it only via multiparameters. Some of you didn't like the idea, and it's understandable. So, we will provide automation for multiparameters and main plugin parameters, but NOT for modulators, MIDI and multiparameter settings. That's because right now most of the automation is for these things and they are nearly never useful. NOTE that you will still be able to automate them, but via a multiparameter.

#2 - Ranges of some parameter could be extended

MMultiBandDelay - delay is now limited to 500ms, we can extend it to 10 seconds.

Anything else?

#3 - Remove some plugins and change names of others

This would be a very big change, but I believe it is for the best. Licencing may be tricky, but I hope people wouldn't be too angry , you can comment on that now after all . A problem here is that if you'd run V10 along with V11, there would be duplicate names. So maybe also rename stuff to like MAutopan11? Probably not, most people would most likely stick with the new versions.

- MDynamicEq removed, MAutoDynamicEq would be the only one, users of MDynamicEq would receive a licence to MAutoDynamicEq

- MLimiter renamed to MSaturator. Then MDynamicsLimiter could be renamed to MLimiter, but I'm not sure if that wouldn't add to the confusion?

- All multiband plugins renamed. E.g. MMultiBandAutopan would become MAutopanMB, MMultiBandLimiter would become MLimiterMB, etc. Just to make the names shorter and in fact it would be good if the lists in the hosts would have MAutopan and MAutopanMB next to each other.

- MEqualizerLinearPhase and MAutoEqualizerLinearPhase removed, only MAutoEqualizer would exist with optional linear-phase mode and latency adjusted depending on the mode. Users of MEqualizerLinearPhase would receive a licence for MAutoEqualizer.

- MMultiBandDynamicsLarge would be removed and MMultiBandDynamics would be the big one. Would need some GUI adjustments. But just remove the 2 versions...

- MSpectralDynamicsMini removed, only MSpectralDynamics would exist.


Ok, any further ideas?

[sinkmusic]

- All multiband plugins renamed. E.g. MMultiBandAutopan would become MAutopanMB, MMultiBandLimiter would become MLimiterMB, etc. Just to make the names shorter and in fact it would be good if the lists in the hosts would have MAutopan and MAutopanMB next to each other.

+1
The first thing i need to know is the FX kind (reverb, autopan, etc), and then only, if its full band or multiband.
"MAutopanMB" seems ok to me.

[jmg8]

1. How about removing MFreeformAnalogEQ and instead adding the analog mode to MFreeformEQ.

2. In EQs extend the range of the "harmonic depth" to 200% to allow for the harmonics to have a higher gain than the fundamental.

3. Make ALL premium plugins Multiband. As there is already many uses in the crossovers other than just frequency split now. Also there will hopefully be more modes added to the crossovers in the future. It would be nice if all the plugins could take advantage of this. Now would be a good time to make a big change like this.

4. The beta version of MTurboReverb has a Multiband version too. I suggest on having the MB version and also having the MTurboComp as an MB version too.

I like all of your above suggestions, fully on board with these changes. Thanks.

[Alphacodex]

I like the idea of tidying up a bit, my biggest concern would be:

On the long term I wouldn't like to have version 10 and version 11 both installed - but what happens when I load an older project that uses the V10 plugins? Will they be marked as "not found" or will it automatically use the new V11 versions (like it was with all releases up to now and which I'd really prefer). Or could this maybe be some sort of option? So for example in the melda installer I could choose: "Install V11 plugins alongside V10" or "Substitute V10 plugins with the V11 versions" - that would be probably best to get a smooth transition...

Of course for the removed plugins there is no substitute so the will be gone, but that should be ok for me...

[vectorwarrior]

I'm very concerned by some of these changes. As Alpha says above, what happens if you open an old project that contains plugs that no longer exist? The biggest issue for me is the removal of dynamic eq, this was my standard eq as it has the auto stuff removed that I only use occasionally. I have hundreds of projects using dynamic eq and it will take days to go back and convert them if you don't have a clever solution.

For context, I am a video game sound designer, I make a project for each sound effect. I'm working on a large scale project with currently around 10,000 sound effects and quickly growing. I regularly go back, tweak and re-render sounds so compatibility is vital. My project will be running for years so I'll have to live with whatever mess this causes for a long time.

Having the new versions be called something different like v11 is ugly and messy, but I guess it solves backwards compatibility issues as I'll just keep the old version installed. This would be my preference is you wanted to go this route.

My general feeling is that this seems like a whole lot of work for very little benefit. It seems like the biggest issue you're trying to fix is the delay time and mlimiter. Delay would be better resolved by making a new, more interesting Turbo delay that also has a longer delay time. If people want longer delay, buy Turbo delay. And mlimiter well, I.don't have a good solution for that, either break backwards compatibility or live with it.

The automation changes I'm personally not too worried about.

[waltercruz]

I'm very concerned by some of these changes. As Alpha says above, what happens if you open an old project that contains plugs that no longer exist?

If I understood correctly, V11 plugins will coexist with V10 plugins.

[DarkStar]

#1 - The automation parameter set would be limited
The proposal sounds good to me. it's in line with this, as far as I can see.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/posting.p ... &p=6695551

The Multiparameters would be listed under the Global node, I reckon. And, for individual plug-ins, many other "almost never automated usefully" parameters could be removed from the list of automation parameters.



#3 - Remove some plugins and change names of others
Some rationalizing and renaming would be useful. And the sooner we see MSaturator, the better. Putting "Multiband" and "MB" at the end of the plug-in name means that it is more likely that a meaningful name will be visible in many DAWs.

For Mlimiter >> MSaturator: provide both plug-ins in v11, both would use the same presets. And, whenever Mlimiter is opened, pop up a message reminding the user to replace it by MSaturator.

The guys above already commented on the logistic problems resulting from the renaming / removal of some plug-ins. It might turn out to be necessary to provide the new ones as described AND continue to provide the old ones throughout v11 (as outlined above for MLimiter/MSaturator). That way people would have half a chance to convert their projects.

Now, if only there were some MMagicConverter plug-in .... ?

More thoughts later.

[Alphacodex]

Regarding MLimiter I'd say "Live with it". I'd rather have backwards compatibility.

And who said that Limiting can only be done with a compressor anyway?

Here is my offer:
I'd stand up for you in any thread or forum and argue that Saturation is actually even the better way to limit peaks than compression, if that helps!!

By the way:
Is the name of the plugin how it is visually shown in the DAW and the internal name, by which the DAW decides whether it is the same or another plugin the same or two different things?

Cheers,
Codex

[mljung]

Many good suggestions to reduce clutter - I think it's a good move forward.
Fewer plugins, simpler and better names etc

As mentioned in another thread, I would suggest changing MStereoSpread to something else so you don't think the plugin is for spreading stereo. Rather it spreads mono into stereo - but MMonoSpread may sound strange to some - maybe some have a better idea

::
Mads

[jmg8]

Many good suggestions to reduce clutter - I think it's a good move forward.
Fewer plugins, simpler and better names etc

As mentioned in another thread, I would suggest changing MStereoSpread to something else so you don't think the plugin is for spreading stereo. Rather it spreads mono into stereo - but MMonoSpread may sound strange to some - maybe some have a better idea

::
Mads

MStereoize

[mljung]

MStereoize - yes that's an idea...

::
Mads

[pumafred]

Many good suggestions to reduce clutter - I think it's a good move forward.
Fewer plugins, simpler and better names etc

+1

[aMUSEd]

- MDynamicEq removed, MAutoDynamicEq would be the only one, users of MDynamicEq would receive a licence to MAutoDynamicEq

Understandable, but a bit annoying, considering I only recently paid to upgrade from MDynamicEq to MAutoDynamicEq.

[werzel]

I'm pretty easy going with changes, I usually just shrug and find a way to adapt

I do have a request though: Could you please switch the Activate and Deactivate locations in the Settings panel? I'm always paranoid that I'll hit Deactivate by mistake! I haven't yet (so I don't know what the next step would be) but I sure would feel safer if it wasn't so close to the info, minimize and close icons!

Thanks,
werzel

[TFF]

#1: Just to be clear, automation would not be possible for those parameters, but modulation/multiparameters could still effect them? So you could set a multiparameter to one of them and modulate that?

#2: Yes please. Longer delays, wider ranges. I want to make things weirder.