u-he

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:09 am

Hehe, just to clarify, our standard control rate for modulations is a quarter of the sample rate, or 1:4. So for direct routings such as Osc Tune Mod knobs these modulations are going already well into audio rate, always have.

To illustrate, the control rate of a certain hardware synth is 1:16, but I suspect 1:64 or "just below 1kHz" is very common out there (also in vintage poly synths), and it is what we use in our ModMatrix system. We will certainly experiment with 1:16 for the ModMatrix as this is what we can do easily.

vvilms · Post by **vvilms** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:08 am

Urs wrote:Hehe, just to clarify, our standard control rate for modulations is a quarter of the sample rate, or 1:4. So for direct routings such as Osc Tune Mod knobs these modulations are going already well into audio rate, always have.

To illustrate, the control rate of a certain hardware synth is 1:16, but I suspect 1:64 or "just below 1kHz" is very common out there (also in vintage poly synths), and it is what we use in our ModMatrix system. We will certainly experiment with 1:16 for the ModMatrix as this is what we can do easily.

So... I really missed all of the posts when you were away, but now that you're back... I just. This is torture.

*can't stop, won't stop drooling*

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:41 am

The biggest torture is that I'm still so occupied with loads of other things. I surely get a lot of planning done, and some of the draining work (recent ModMatrix upgrade for MultiCore), but what I really want to do is write all the shiny new modules - and finish the ones we started long time ago. The new modules aren't even the biggest clump of work, but the most fun one.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:13 pm

Urs wrote:The drawback of Zebra's tech is that one can not make filters that actually change the frequency of individual harmonics. It's a drawback that in practice doesn't matter too much because there are many means in Zebra to create metallic and inharmonious sounds.

I'm not trying to be argumentative (honest) but I reckon it's more than metallic/inharmonious timbres -
dynamic bending, shifting, stretching, pinching etc of harmonics gives some peculiar and distinctive effects that can't quite be achieved in any other way, at least so far as I know.

But if it can't be done, that's that.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:18 pm

hakey wrote:
Urs wrote:The drawback of Zebra's tech is that one can not make filters that actually change the frequency of individual harmonics. It's a drawback that in practice doesn't matter too much because there are many means in Zebra to create metallic and inharmonious sounds.
I'm not trying to be argumentative (honest) but I reckon it's more than metallic/inharmonious timbres - dynamic bending, shifting, stretching, pinching etc of harmonics gives some peculiar and distinctive effects that can't quite be achieved in any other way, at least so far as I know.

But if it can't be done, that's that.

Yeah, won't work with Zebra's current method. Which I'd rather not change in total.

However, I do think we'll have a modal filter bank. It won't have thousands of harmonics, but it'll have some shift/pinch whatsoever. Gonna check out some competition to see how useful I find it (I have a prototype synth based on it that I find difficult to use)

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:45 pm

I do think we'll have a modal filter bank. It won't have thousands of harmonics, but it'll have some shift/pinch whatsoever.

Well, that'll do nicely. Cool!

goleat · Post by **goleat** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:17 pm

Urs what are you doing here? I think this thread has more lines written than the Zebra 3 code itself?

Out of jokes, I love the communication that you keep with us. Greetings.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:43 pm

goleat wrote:Urs what are you doing here? I think this thread has more lines written than the Zebra 3 code itself?

might just

Out of jokes, I love the communication that you keep with us. Greetings.

I'm actually thinking about starting a new thread... getting quite excited about a few things. The standard waveforms of the LFO might be ready some time this week, with some IMHO very funky additions to overall functionality. I'm experimenting with resonant slew filters to achieve similar effects to the Wiard Wogglebug, plus optional Symmetry/Swing and different Delay/Fade modes.

(well, most importantly, I managed to jump start the old Zebra3 development target which hadn't been touched in a few years. It now yields a working synth at the state we left it at... already a few modules there, but so many good ideas that have to be added...)

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Urs wrote: I'm experimenting with resonant slew filters to achieve similar effects to the Wiard Wogglebug, plus optional Symmetry/Swing and different Delay/Fade modes.

I don't know if it belongs on the LFO or on the EGs, but something that you can modulate the ascending and descending slope as well as modulate the shape! This would be similar to CV inputs on the Buchla function generator. Just thinking out loud based on your post.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:11 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:but something that you can modulate the ascending and descending slope

That's a slew limiter.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:30 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
SJ_Digriz wrote:but something that you can modulate the ascending and descending slope
That's a slew limiter.

A slew limiter is far from the only option in this scenario. However, I was more just musing based on his Slew Limiter comment. I built a 281e in MU format and I like it far more as an LFO than an EG, although the distinction is somewhat arbitrary as an LFO can be seen as a repeating EG. Anyhow, I like the idea .. but was thinking there may be more stuff for the LFO than putting a limiter pre and/or post signal.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:22 pm

hey, I'm not knocking the slew filter idea by the way. I think its a great idea! The statement just caused 2 of the 3 gray matter cells I have left to fire simultaneously.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:59 pm

Hmm, yeah, pretty disappointed by my current woggly experiments... needs more experimentation.

As for function generators, I can certainly see some in Z3. The global LFOs are getting ditched for voice-based ones that do it all, so there's a vacancy or two in that department. Thinking Maths-style with (self-)modulatable rise and fall times. Good for quick and dirty extra LFO and envelope needs.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:02 pm

Urs wrote:Hmm, yeah, pretty disappointed by my current woggly experiments... needs more experimentation.

As for function generators, I can certainly see some in Z3. The global LFOs are getting ditched for voice-based ones that do it all, so there's a vacancy or two in that department. Thinking Maths-style with (self-)modulatable rise and fall times. Good for quick and dirty extra LFO and envelope needs.

Am I reading that as "per voice" LFO? So, we can have out of synch independent per event trigger LFO?

dayjob · Post by **dayjob** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:20 pm

Urs wrote:Hmm, yeah, pretty disappointed by my current woggly experiments... needs more experimentation.

As for function generators, I can certainly see some in Z3. The global LFOs are getting ditched for voice-based ones that do it all, so there's a vacancy or two in that department. Thinking Maths-style with (self-)modulatable rise and fall times. Good for quick and dirty extra LFO and envelope needs.

that sounds great. if you can model the exponential shape of that MATHS attack i'd be floored. being able to turn on/off cycling via a mod source would also be fun. but the shape of that attack is my fav thing about it. so great for FM plonks and bass things.

u-he

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